One for the LED home lighting geeks

[Thrustyjust]

Weirdly, my driveway light was giving me issues by pulsing. It was a cheapy 50 W LED floodlight. So, I bought a new Osram LEDvance light. Well this started to flash as well . Both of them randomly, I might guess. So, I decided to replace the PIR sensor , which is independant to the fitting. Seems OK for a while again, then it pulses again. So, I decided to check the wiring again and connections and the fused spur for any loose wires. All seems fine. Now, the spur cable then runs into my loft and being 16 years ago, I dont remember where I wired it. We did have a new board put in by a qualified sparky to also feed out extension and he checked everything I had wired to the old board to pass for the certificate to be issued. So, I have decided to put a test meter on the spur tonight , incase of power fluctuation and it seems to be sitting at 245 to 247 volts. There is no sudden drops either to earth or live to neutral. 

So, my options are to :

1/ Run a power supply from a socket to the spur to feed the light that way and tick the power supply from the unknown point to the spur.

2/ disconnect the fitting and run to  socket to see if the light flashes

3/ Help from others with other ideas , such as reliability of the Osram fittings, although I do have 2 off 20 w ones in the back of the house which currently run well for the last 18 months.

Any thing  may have missed with these LED fittings before I go back to halogen billion watt jobbies ?

[Kit Car Electronics and Essex AO]

Are you sure your PIR switch is compatible with the low Wattage LED lights, Justin? I think that often they aren't.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Flashing is most often caused when a switching device of some kind has to feed a small number of LED's, and isn't designed for that sort of load. Sometimes just adding a dummy load to the circuit in the form of a decently rated resistor and heat sink will make it work, sometimes its down to cheap and nasty led lamps, sometimes a bit of both.

In really annoying situations, with electronic dimming or switching of the LED load, you can't actually turn it off, as once powered up, it just flashes in the off position! And once started, the annoying little blighters wont always stop until you phycpscically cut the power!

It can be one of those symptoms of a few different issues though. The Voltages you're seeing should be no problem. 

Using a switching device designed for modern LED loads is best though.

[Thrustyjust]

51 minutes ago, Kit Car Electronics said:

Are you sure your PIR switch is compatible with the low Wattage LED lights, Justin? I think that often they aren't.

Mike, that is something I had been thinking, but the old light was 50 watt ( chinky special and probably used less watts) and was running the original PIR for 2 years before the dance floor started. Hence why I thought the light was failing. I wanted to see what a 50 watt light would do on the drive as to why I tried it. The replacement Osram was also 50 watt . This is what I bought as a PIR replacement. I was in 2 minds about being how cheap it was but no one seemed to sell anything better that I could find. People have said it can run the LED's in their reviews. 

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-External-PIR-Motion-Sensor/p/702836

It is the same as the Ring one , identically that was the previous one, so also meant no more hole drilling was needed. 

Cheers TJ

[Thrustyjust]

47 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

Flashing is most often caused when a switching device of some kind has to feed a small number of LED's, and isn't designed for that sort of load. Sometimes just adding a dummy load to the circuit in the form of a decently rated resistor and heat sink will make it work, sometimes its down to cheap and nasty led lamps, sometimes a bit of both.

In really annoying situations, with electronic dimming or switching of the LED load, you can't actually turn it off, as once powered up, it just flashes in the off position! And once started, the annoying little blighters wont always stop until you phycpscically cut the power!

It can be one of those symptoms of a few different issues though. The Voltages you're seeing should be no problem. 

Using a switching device designed for modern LED loads is best though.

We had a flashy time in the breakfast room. My electrical suppliers gave me a decent ( variable) dimmer switch that I could adjust to stop the flickering, but it didnt work. I did have dimmable light bulbs LED in the fitting. When I told him they were LAP from Screwfix, he immediately drove to my house, gave me a tough time, swopped all my LAP bulbs for decent quality ones and that cured it . Dont believe that LAP bulbs are all dimmable. Something about cheap chinese drivers or something in them. So now, we can sit without pulsing of light bulbs.

As for the PIR. Its just a contact switch ? So, the power of 240 V goes into the sensor, the sensor detects movement, which then just clicks the relay over to allow power to the light. I dont hear any relays clicking when pulsing and cant feel it by holding the PIR.

[SootySport]

Just bypass the PIR switch and and see if it behaves itself. 

If fitting any internal domestic led’s you’ll need a dimmable bulb that actually say ‘dimmable’ on the box. I use LAP bulbs in my house with VPro trailing edge dimmer switches and they are fine. You can also programme the dimmers to give a linear increase and decrease in the way they dim or brighten. Instructions come with dimmers, the bit of paper you usually throw away.

You don’t have to buy the whole dimmer and plate, just the module and swap over the plate and knob over.

Linky

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

My rule of thumb with these things is this: If it (the PIR) clicks when it trips it's a relay and it's likely to be okay, but if not you may have odd behaviour. Triacs etc., don't like non-resistive loads or loads below a certain level.

[DamperMan]

Due to the expence of changing the house bulbs to led I did so a few bulbs a month with Phillips LED bulbs.   Led bulbs are supposed to have a very long life..   I’ve had 2 failures.   Both would start and work fine from cold then start to intermittently flicker.   Basically my thought is they  are no ware near as good as hoped.   On a plus side they stay cool so you don’t burn your self changing them. 

[Kit Car Electronics and Essex AO]

12 minutes ago, DamperMan said:

Due to the expence of changing the house bulbs to led I did so a few bulbs a month with Phillips LED bulbs.   Led bulbs are supposed to have a very long life..   I’ve had 2 failures.   Both would start and work fine from cold then start to intermittently flicker.   Basically my thought is they  are no ware near as good as hoped.   On a plus side they stay cool so you don’t burn your self changing them. 

I've spent a fortune on all types of low energy lighting, both cheap and supposed high quality- way more than I've ever saved on electricity- and they've nearly all been a disappointment in one way or another. Oh, and I also have randomly flickering Philips bulbs.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

All my expensive philips bulbs have been crap either the colour has gone funny or flickers and have all been replaced with lumilife ones from LED hut. They have been flawless for 4 years with no issues at all.

[Thrustyjust]

Interesting things to note. It is under warranty and also the old one ( non Osram ) did flash, which is why I changed it and then the PIR . I am going to disconnect the power from the spur tonight and just rig to a plug socket and see what happens that way and will report back !! Then , disconnect the sensor and go direct to mains for the light and see what that does, if it is still flashing tomorrow. Then its the fitting and I will send it back.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Not used Philips for years, they’d randomly muck around with the dimming profiles required batch to batch. Nightmare when using them with lighting control systems.

[Thrustyjust]

Get home, light works perfect. Wifes gone out and works perfect again. Not changed nothing. Might do a terminal check on the fuse board at the weekend..............

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I have never had a Philips product that wasn't a disappointment. Well not since a rotary shaver from the 1960s

[DamperMan]

Off topic but I put LED bulbs in the interior lights of the campervan to save valuable Amp hours when running on leisure battery.  and more importantly not to be getting annoyed with the family who don’t care for switching lights off.     They work fine except if the kids turn the lights on in the back while we are driving it just kills all  DAB reception and the radio goes silent..     Modern tech is just C r a p.