Lithium battery goodness

[RobT]

As my battery will need replacing soon I thought I'd get some opinions on to how anyone is getting on using a tiny lightweight Lion battery.

I've seen plenty of bad press for the few that have gone bad and they are spectacular. On the other hand we've all got them in our phones and tablets and laptops and ereaders and drills and and and probably loads of stuff I can't think of.

Basically do i upgrade to an odyssey or go with the ultra lightweight modern tech. Either could make me blissfully happy when my car starts but one is a lot lighter.

Your thoughts, experiences and urban myth please

[Stuart]

I used to work in waste electronics recycling and, having seen several fierce fires from them when compromised, I wouldn't let one anywhere near my Westfield.

But I'm sure others will have a different view

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

There have been some really bad fires with full EV cars ie Tesla's where the battery pack has been mechanically damaged. Not sure main stream media have not shown more of them yet. Personally I find that pretty concerning, but I guess the same could be said of any petrol fires. As to running them as main batteries for providing 12v supply I already do on my race car, 2 of them, but at the rear of the car above the rear axle, in an area where they are very difficult to damage and if they did go exothermic they would hopefully be isolated enough not to damage to much. They are reliable and work well and are certainly light so save loads of weight compared to a lead battery, in my case about 12Kg

[RobT]

On 08/08/2018 at 21:28, Stuart said:

I used to work in waste electronics recycling and, having seen several fierce fires from them when compromised, I wouldn't let one anywhere near my Westfield.

But I'm sure others will have a different view

I must admit that once thermal runaway is reached then its time to run away - but I reckon the chassis would also be destroyed if it were mounted in a protected area. 

[RobT]

On 08/08/2018 at 21:57, Nick - Joint North East AO said:

There have been some really bad fires with full EV cars ie Tesla's where the battery pack has been mechanically damaged. Not sure main stream media have not shown more of them yet. Personally I find that pretty concerning, but I guess the same could be said of any petrol fires. As to running them as main batteries for providing 12v supply I already do on my race car, 2 of them, but at the rear of the car above the rear axle, in an area where they are very difficult to damage and if they did go exothermic they would hopefully be isolated enough not to damage to much. They are reliable and work well and are certainly light so save loads of weight compared to a lead battery, in my case about 12Kg

Interesting that you fit 2 batteries. Why is that? Does your engine charge these up or do you charge them seperately? My car is a bit of road and track day so it could be started several times in one day so need to be a bit more than a little jump pack.

I like the fitment at the back though. I'm guessing that you need quite long power cables which could add back some weight

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Do you plan on using the car for MSA events in the future? If so have a read of the MSA regs and ensure you only buy one from an MSA registered manufacturer.

[6carjon]

I used a super b lithium ion battery on a small engined race car and it was perfect  never any issues.

I tried one in my v8 and it didn't work so well.

Obviously starting a big engine requires lots of pca. -pulse cranking amps which makes it expensive.

 I also used multiple cells with bus bars connecting them to work out how big a battery I needed.

These didn't handle vibrations well and kept loosening and reducing capacity 

This led to over use of the other cells and overheating.

I'm also had them in a hot cockpit which made life hard.

Amp hours were always an issue, lower in an lithium and expensive, which meant it would start the car but only a few times before they were flat.

In a road use situation this made it hard to recommend as you are always anxious as you can't predict when  you might want it start again. Imagine you set out for a run  find you have no fuel and then after filling it locally in a station it won't start again...

It doesn't work as well on a cold day either....

All in all, buy with this in mind.

I went back to an odyssey and gained 7kg in weight but peace of mind. 

If you track day on a trailer or race it mostly on nice days then definitely give it a try.

If you have a small engine give it a go, it's not so expensive. 

If you have a hard to crank engine that needs 900pca, it gets expensive. 

Until technology becomes cheaper, bear this in mind.

 

[Stephen W]

I have this one. 

Seems fine. 

http://www.plays-kool.co.uk/acatalog/Lithium-Batteries.html

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

7 hours ago, RobT said:

Interesting that you fit 2 batteries. Why is that? Does your engine charge these up or do you charge them seperately? My car is a bit of road and track day so it could be started several times in one day so need to be a bit more than a little jump pack.

I like the fitment at the back though. I'm guessing that you need quite long power cables which could add back some weight

Simple, its a Hayabusa and they like 24 Volt starting when tuned. so 1 is for normal use and being charged all the time + running everything. The other is just to add to provide the 24v starting.

[Kingster]

2 hours ago, Nick - Joint North East AO said:

Hayabusa and they like 24 Volt starting when tuned

I never knew that. Every day’s a school day 

[B.RAD]

Is running a li-ion battery a genuine concern then? If so, how is it that they power the majority of ride on lawnmowers, motorbikes, golf carts etc? 

I ran a lightweight li-ion battery on my Westfield for the past three years, weighed 600g and started the car first time, every time. I now have one fitted to the track Mazda too. I always opt for the highest CCA possible - 180 on the ones I've bought. They don't have to be expensive either, just some patient searching on eBay:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F332612044518

So should I remove it from the Mazda based on what has been said on this thread, or is it unnecessary fearmongering?

(Ref cold starting, I only had this once on a very cold winter morning and I thought the battery was flat, however, they just take a little time to wake up. Popped the sidelights on for 30secs and bingo bango it started straight away).

[Geezergs]

I ran odyssey batteries on my BMW motorbikes for years they lasted much longer and never gave me any trouble, I have an odyssey in my Westfield I don't have any worries with it if you have a big shunt in a Westy you may have other things to worry about..... No real protection etc. I have mine mounted in an alloy frame which will hopefully hold it in position in a crunch. The weight saving is also a big factor. 

[Stuart]

Thus is the sort of thing I mean - and this is just a laptop battery.  Can happen if overcharged, short circuited or damaged and is very difficult to extinguish as it doesn't need an oxygen supply to burn.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbUP0sGQT8

 

[B.RAD]

What happens to a normal battery if it's overcharged, damaged or short circuited?

[Stephen W]

If you abuse one it’ll burn. 

 

Same as the 20 litres of super unleaded behind you in the crumple zone...

 

Just use your noggin and you’ll be fine.