Move from ducted to clasic nose

[Maurici- CleaR Motorsport]

Ive just recently bought an small westy with a 1.8 zetec that has serious issues on track to keep it cool.

Then ive fitted a coolex overdimensioned rad, and had to deal with this s***ty ducted system. Good lord what an amazing pile of rubissh all together. Concept is wrong, i cant see it working even half good as the design may have been developed on a pub napking after the fourth paint,and i makes a pain to work with the rad... 

So, after all this nice words, i really want to go back to the classic system.

Why do I need to take in account?

I will need a nosecone, obvious. What else?

Get rid of the ducted system will be easier, but is there anything i need to take in account? (Other than shortening the hoses)

Will my polo rad fit in the same place as the std or will need mods?

 

Out of curiosity... has someone found any real benefit of using the ducted system? Im just overreacting of how poorly engineered is?

 

[TableLeg]

I was told by Westfield that it was developed to prevent the hot radiator air from flowing into the engine bay and making it hot. However, I have 2 manifolds which when at several hundred degrees each I'd much rather have air at a hundred degrees flowing over them to help keep them cool.

I've ditched the concept and mounted my rad vertical in the conventional way but will make a shroud for the front to force all incoming air through the rad.

I considered I was always going to have overheating myself with such a large engine and such a small rad and front surface area. I spoke with a guy who build a hotrod with the same engine and had no end of issues with cooling. He switched to a Davies Craig electric fan setup and has had no issues since. And his is the 6.2L!!!

I decided to the do the same. Perhaps it would be worth considering?

 

[Maurici- CleaR Motorsport]

Thanks. So you did move from ducted to conventional! Did you change the nose? Was it straoghtforward?

Regarding the Fan, car already have a big and nice Spal... however that is irrelevant, not a fan in the world will help at track speeds. Proper track cars actually dont use fans...

The problen in my opinion is overall cooling capacity (rad size) and airflow (**** ducted system)

[TableLeg]

Bear in mind my car hasn't yet seen any road action. I have all the ducting as supplied by Westfield for the ducted nose (it's in the shed). Like I say I've mounted my rad upright to the airflow on it's own brackets (not as per the original ducted nose setup where the rad is effectively floating and held by the hoses).

As you rightly point out, once moving you really shouldn't need the fan at all and if you do then you have an issue with the design or operation of the cooling system. And as you point out the one of the issues to cooling is the airflow. All you can do here (without changing the rad to a larger one) is maximise the amount of airflow passing through the rad. So ducting the incoming air so that all of it passes through the rad with as little a restriction as possible. Remember too any restrictions to the airflow coming out the rad will also affect the airflow in.

So long as you mount the rad in the conventional way (with the chassis brackets) I can't see any reason why you coudn't just replace the nosecone with a normal one easily.

Just to add, I really did not like the design of the ducted nose system myself (it was supplied with my kit). Having the rad not perpendicular to the air flow can only serve to reduce the flow through it in my opinion.

I plan to duct mine at the front, with the ducting running right up to the edge of the cooling fins so the airflow cannot go anywhere else. I also remember another member on here with a 5.1 V8 Sprint car and he cut away all the slots in the nosecone leaving a larger inlet and said it had a big impact on cooling. If you are thinking about doing this (and don't plan on selling the old nosecone) you could try this to see if it helps.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman)]

Side note. Wind tunnel testing on seven type cars, (mainly Caterham) with airflow from the back of the radiator ducted out through the top of the nose cone, has also shown it to be a significant contributor to reducing the front end lift you tend to naturally get with the seven shape nose!

Back on topic though, all you should need is chassis mounts and a few mods to your hoses, if you already have a Coolex radiator. Depending on the size, (depth)of the rad fan*, and whether you have a front arb in the conventional position, you might need to space the radiator a bit further forward. The welded aly type rads also seem to really benefit from being attached to the mounting points with rubber anti vibration mounts.

And deffinately add the front ducting of some sort. If you want off the shelf then Westfield supply the Aerorace front duct kit. Or you could make up something your self easily enough. Makes a big difference once you get to motorway speeds and above, though.

 

*from memory, the original spec for the V8 ducted nose cars used to use a good radiator, but then had a comparatively poor (by modern standards), old fashioned rad fan. I’d also be making sure you had a decent high power modern rad fan, of the largest size that would fit.