Advice on what to buy

[Lord]

Hi

i don’t have a Westfield yet but I’ll be looking for one towards the end of summer as a little project for the winter. I’ve been keen on the kit car idea for a while but never taken the plunge. 

I’ve had hot hatches in the past and enjoy track days but also want to use on the road so it must be road legal. 

After driving various cars on track I’ve come to the conclusion that I have just as much fun in a light car that handles well as I do in a heavier but more powerful car. For that reason I reckon around 170-180 bro should be enough so I’m thinking a 2.0 Zetec would be enough but I’d seriously consider an S2000 engine. 

Despite doing research I still have a few questions before I make a purchase. Particularly to help me decide whether to buy new or a previously built model. I don’t mind either way. 

From reading I gather that an FW is the bodywork design with the more modern rear end? Is everything mechanical and interior interchangeable between an FW and a classic?

I'm after a wide body, what year did these become standard? 

I notice that they offer a wide track option when buying new. If I buy second hand and it doesn’t have this then is this an easy swap? Is it just the wishbones or do I need to swap other parts like struts, anti roll bar, drop link, etc. 

Generally, what are these like for bodywork? I gather they’re all fibreglass with a gel coat, how do these last? I know it depends on the owner but are they well made? 

Any particular areas to look out for rust? Do I need to remove the body to check problem areas? I’d this a big job?

Thanks

[Kevin (Mr T)]

I will just say  from Essex and leave it to the experts to answer your questions.

I am sure that they will be along soon!

[BugMan]

first Welcome from Yorkshire  and i would highly recommend finding your local WF group and go along to a meeting and have a chat, was the very best thing I did before I started my WF journey.  You will find a very friendly bunch who can advise you on all aspects.

[Alan Cutler (Adge) - Dorset AO]

 welcome from sunny Somerset. Would echo the above advice, go along to your local area meet, they're a friendly knowledgeable bunch in my experience. Don't forget the Kit Car show at Stoneleigh in just over a weeks time. Lots of cars and owners there. Best of luck.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Welcome!

The FW has the one piece hinged nose/bonnet and, as you say, the more modern rear end.underneath the bodywork though, it’s nearly the same as a traditional ZK bodywork car. The key difference is that the FW has a different fuel tank, which sits on a frame over the top of the diff. While the traditional ZK has a different tank, sat difectly on the chassis behind the diff. Both tanks, on injected cars use the same filter and pump, they just sit in different positions. If the car has a rear anti roll bar, then it also sits in a different position for each body style. Note though, as I understand it, the factory do a bar fro FW and a bar for ZK, but both are completely different styles, so individual bits don’t really swap, IFYSWIM. I believe some of the aftermarket suppliers that do rear ARB’s are starting to make FW mounts and drop links though.

The interior and front of the car is basically the same whatever body style. 

Note, the FW will take a slightly different offset wheel at the back, than a ZK, if you’re looking to really fill the arch.

Sorry, I can’t recall exactly when the narrow was down dropped - these things are always quite so easy to date, it was around the mid 2000’s, certainly they were still on the price list around 2004 when I bough my previous kit.

Widetrack can be retrofitted very easily. In addition to the wishbones and having the geometry re-done, you need longer front brake hoses. But these may come with the kit, also, you often get adaptor brackets to reuse the narrow track spring/damper. But some like to replace them with correct length versions, and do away with the adaptor.

If you have a front ARB, then Westfields own are generally either for narrow or wide track and not interchangeable. However, ARB from someone like Playskool just need the bar swapping for a wider one.

The GRP bodywork lasts pretty well. It’s quite possible to reboot a car, or replace individual sections. (Providing it’s not a really early car, in which case, very early bodywork isn’t available, but later bodywork would fit, you’d just have to replace it all.)

As for rust. Check around the wheels, front and rear, as the chassis tubes and wishbones get pounded by grit and gravel off the tyres quite a bit. Elsewhere, there are quite a few water traps, but then the cars are often dry use, so don’t seem to be a huge problem.

[Andy Banks]

My recommendation (well it would be wouldn't it) is to sign up as a full member, get your welcome pack, get your local Area Organiser contact details and go out and speak with them, this is one of the most valuable things you get out of membership of the WSCC.

Of course in a couple of days there is Stoneleigh where you meet hundreds of members and hundreds of different cars (some for sale).

[Kingster]

As Andy says -  as the Kit Car Show at  Stoneleigh is only a week or so away, it would be the perfect opportunity to see literally hundreds of Westfields in one place and have the opportunity to meet the owners and ask questions.

If you can't make that, then let us know where you are and see if you can meet up with local members.

Oh - and welcome!

[Lord]

Thank you very much, it’s really useful information. I had seen the show advertised and have been trying to make it but it won’t be possible this time, I’ll make sure that changes for next year. I’m not in a big rush to get one as I’m hoping I can pick up a used bargain towards the winter but we'll see. If not then I may consider a new one. 

From what’s been said it sounds like I can pretty much change anything on a used car to make it how I want, essentially even the body although it would be better to get one as close to my ideal one as possible otherwise I might as well buy new. 

Can I just check, if I buy one without a rear anti roll bar, in any model, can I then add one by moving the tank?

[TAFKARM]

Before you commit to a spec try to go out in a few cars - I run standard track, no ARBs, no 4 pots and I'm usually not the slowest one on a track day....

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

4 minutes ago, Lord said:

Can I just check, if I buy one without a rear anti roll bar, in any model, can I then add one by moving the tank?

Not necessary, they are two very different tanks anyway, so not readily swapped. Much easier, if necessary, to simply swap anti roll bars.

You're absolutely right, technically absolutely anupything or everything can be swapped on the cars. However, some things don't make economic sense to swap. That doesn't mean that people don't do them, anyway. It's just that those sorts of changes are done for the enjoyment of carrying out the work itself!

A typical example of this is an engine swap from one engine type to another. Most people find it will typically cost, all in, around £1500/2000 on top of the cost of the engine itself. It can be even more if it's a particularly exotic engine, less if you've spent a lifetime gathering old car parts for future projects. What it doesn't do is increase the value of thencar by the amount invested in the engine swap. It might not even change the value much at all, and if you're left with unused bodywork holes from the previous installation, it could even loose value, despite a more desirable engine.

Technically, it's usually cheaper to buy a car with the engine you want already in. Funnily enough, while not cheap to do a complete body transplant, if the current bodywork is in fair to good condition, it can fetch quite a reasonable amount second hand, sometimes. Which can offset the cost somewhat.

Interiors are dead easy to change at a basic seats and carpets level, and not that difficult to even change dashes and instruments/switchgear.

Roll bars and cages are easyish swaps too, though cages are a bit more involved as far as car strip down goes. Though again, watch for the "leaving old holes" situation if you have paid for a car with excellent bodywork.

Engines, with the exception of V8's which are rather tight in the engine bay are generally easy to work on, dues to really good access compared to modern era cars. Many of the popular engines are readily tuneable, to. Should the fancy take you.

The main thing is to get out there and experience as many different cars as you can; Stoneleigh aside, as has been said, Area meets are great for this, it's usually possible to blag passenger rides too, not just char and point at the cars. Also many members do trackdays all round the country, and many of them are only to happy to take passengers out for hot laps.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

8 minutes ago, RussH said:

Before you commit to a spec try to go out in a few cars - I run standard track, no ARBs, no 4 pots and I'm usually not the slowest one on a track day....

This is a great point too; many of the things people assume they need aren't vital. Sure some can make things nicer, but it can be very educational to start simple and just learn the car and yourself.

[Kingster]

51 minutes ago, RussH said:

Before you commit to a spec try to go out in a few cars - I run standard track, no ARBs, no 4 pots and I'm usually not the slowest one on a track day....

That’ll be me! 

Following in from Dave’s post...

My car will be three years old in June:

Engine swap... check

Gearbox swap... check

Dash swap... check

ECU swap... check

Widetrack swap... check

rollbar to full cage... check

bonnet swap... check

And I’ve not done as much as another Chris I could mention!

Now about those 13” wheels...

[Lord]

2 hours ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

Not necessary, they are two very different tanks anyway, so not readily swapped. Much easier, if necessary, to simply swap anti roll bars.

You're absolutely right, technically absolutely anupything or everything can be swapped on the cars. However, some things don't make economic sense to swap. That doesn't mean that people don't do them, anyway. It's just that those sorts of changes are done for the enjoyment of carrying out the work itself!

A typical example of this is an engine swap from one engine type to another. Most people find it will typically cost, all in, around £1500/2000 on top of the cost of the engine itself. It can be even more if it's a particularly exotic engine, less if you've spent a lifetime gathering old car parts for future projects. What it doesn't do is increase the value of thencar by the amount invested in the engine swap. It might not even change the value much at all, and if you're left with unused bodywork holes from the previous installation, it could even loose value, despite a more desirable engine.

Technically, it's usually cheaper to buy a car with the engine you want already in. Funnily enough, while not cheap to do a complete body transplant, if the current bodywork is in fair to good condition, it can fetch quite a reasonable amount second hand, sometimes. Which can offset the cost somewhat.

Interiors are dead easy to change at a basic seats and carpets level, and not that difficult to even change dashes and instruments/switchgear.

Roll bars and cages are easyish swaps too, though cages are a bit more involved as far as car strip down goes. Though again, watch for the "leaving old holes" situation if you have paid for a car with excellent bodywork.

Engines, with the exception of V8's which are rather tight in the engine bay are generally easy to work on, dues to really good access compared to modern era cars. Many of the popular engines are readily tuneable, to. Should the fancy take you.

The main thing is to get out there and experience as many different cars as you can; Stoneleigh aside, as has been said, Area meets are great for this, it's usually possible to blag passenger rides too, not just char and point at the cars. Also many members do trackdays all round the country, and many of them are only to happy to take passengers out for hot laps.

Can I just check what you mean in this part. If a car doesn’t have a rear ARB what is involved in fitting one? 

In the past I’ve tuned engines but I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d much rather have a decent brake and suspension set up. By brakes I even mean just some good pads and discs, I find these are usually much more rewarding that 4 pots or small increases to disc size. 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

The rear anti roll bars bolt in place on pre-existing chassis brackets. Most rear wishbones now have brackets built in for the arb’s drop links to attach to. Some wishbones don’t though, you could either have brackets welded on, or Westfield and Plays Kool both sell bolt on brackets.

Front ARB’s are easier to retrofit, as the droplink brackets are attached to the wishbones fia the same bolt that attaches the bottom end of the spring/damper assembly to the wishbone.

Ive got PlaysKool front and rear anti roll bars, and to be honest, think they suit the car much better that factory ARBks that I’ve tried, which seem way to stiff for road use.

[Lord]

Thank you very much, that’s really helpful.