Gurston Down attendance

[B.RAD]

12 minutes ago, John said:

don't see the lack of events in the south being an issue for anyone other than those that live in the south

Precisely. 

I also don't consider three or four attendees as low attendance (bearing in mind Gurston this year, as has been stated by a number of people, was a one off). Given the number of total entrants this year (47), that would seem to be average (47 entrants attending 10 events each over 37 events would be 12 or 13 attendees at every event, but only 40% of entrants did 10 or more events last year so the average event attendees would be 4 or 5).  Might be worth rethinking what constitutes a "popular" event.

Just my view, but yes I do think a large number of events at more locations across the country would encourage more people to have a go. What would be the downside?

 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

1 hour ago, BCF said:

Just my view, but yes I do think a large number of events at more locations across the country would encourage more people to have a go. What would be the downside?

 

There are those who would and do only compete at venues local to them. Every venue seems to have its local experts and regulars and whilst I agree with you that having more venues would possibly attract more entrants to the SS, in reality they would more than likely only enter the one closest to them that they know and love. Getting them further afield would be the challenge to do more events towards the 10 that count...

[woodman]

When I was competing regularly I liked having lots of events to choose from.

Is there really a problem if only a few people go to an event?

And does it matter if they only do a few events a year?

If I was competing ,I dont mind if there are 10+ events at Blyton as long as there are other venues to choose from on the same dates

If we only have 47 entrants then surely attendances will be low at most events?

 

[B.RAD]

That makes sense John. Which leads me to a thought...

What would be great is for the SSOT to define what the purpose, vision or mission for the Speed Series is. 

We often talk about getting more people involved, but to what end? What kind of people? What level are we looking to appeal to?

We have 47 entrants this year, of which based on last year's numbers, 18 will do 10 or more events, 14 will do 5 to 10 events and the rest will do between none and 4 events. So really only 32 participants.  Given the numbers have been declining, alongside what Nick helpfully shares is a wider issue, it would be really helpful to know what the SS is trying to achieve so we can all input to helping accomplish that goal.

I don't think telling people to volunteer for the SSOT is helpful - there is access to way more input and ideas via this forum or through modern digital media - maybe a radical shake up is the way to go?

Ref diary availability - it truly amazed me that people were able to commit to so many events, every year. Doing the 11 or 12 events I did in 2016 completely took over my life, meaning time away from my wife, my family and my friends. In the short term, I don't see being able to do that again, hence going for the 5 event championships. It's important to acknowledge that not everyone is in the same position as the core competitors who regularly do 10 or more events. So I circle back to my opening point - what exactly is the SS aiming to achieve? If it's more competitors, maybe a shake up to what's always gone before is needed, even if it negatively impacts the 'core' in favour of achieving the SS's goal.

 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

46 minutes ago, BCF said:

That makes sense John. Which leads me to a thought...

What would be great is for the SSOT to define what the purpose, vision or mission for the Speed Series is. 

We often talk about getting more people involved, but to what end? What kind of people? What level are we looking to appeal to?

We have 47 entrants this year, of which based on last year's numbers, 18 will do 10 or more events, 14 will do 5 to 10 events and the rest will do between none and 4 events. So really only 32 participants.  Given the numbers have been declining, alongside what Nick helpfully shares is a wider issue, it would be really helpful to know what the SS is trying to achieve so we can all input to helping accomplish that goal.

I don't think telling people to volunteer for the SSOT is helpful - there is access to way more input and ideas via this forum or through modern digital media - maybe a radical shake up is the way to go?

Ref diary availability - it truly amazed me that people were able to commit to so many events, every year. Doing the 11 or 12 events I did in 2016 completely took over my life, meaning time away from my wife, my family and my friends. In the short term, I don't see being able to do that again, hence going for the 5 event championships. It's important to acknowledge that not everyone is in the same position as the core competitors who regularly do 10 or more events. So I circle back to my opening point - what exactly is the SS aiming to achieve? If it's more competitors, maybe a shake up to what's always gone before is needed, even if it negatively impacts the 'core' in favour of achieving the SS's goal.

 

With the amount of double header weekend events on the calendar only 5 weekends from March through October would do the job. I do get your point though.

We quite often see your exploits on FB entering Javelin events and other events in your father's Mini so I'm a bit confused with what you are trying to get across? If there was a 5 event championship you are hinting that you would enter it? Have you already entered the one that exists?

Another thing to think about is the fact that events that are poorly attended do not have competitors in all classes present. Therefore scoring and target times becomes an issue, especially if a new venue or target times need to be calculated to fill in the gaps.

When I first started off competing, one of the biggest attractions was the amount of other like minded Westfield and SS competitors in the paddock who were available to help and offer advice if needed along with the camaraderie. With low entries at some events this would be lacking for newcomers

I see no reason in upsetting the core at the expense of the minority.

[B.RAD]

Let me simplify my point...

Can the SSOT define what the purpose, vision or mission for the speed series is?

Otherwise we're just debating individual opinion.

12 minutes ago, John said:

see no reason in upsetting the core at the expense of the minority.

It depends on what is to be gained I suppose. As an example, if it meant a change for 18 people would get 50 more people involved, would that be considered a win? Comes back to my question above, this needs to be clarified before our debate adds meaning.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

15 minutes ago, BCF said:

It depends on what is to be gained I suppose. As an example, if it meant a change for 18 people would get 50 more people involved, would that be considered a win? Comes back to my question above, this needs to be clarified before our debate adds meaning.

This is the complete opposite of what you said. in this case its upsetting the minority for the majority and therefore would be a win. reverse the figures and it would be counter productive

[B.RAD]

I think you're misreading it John. My point is, define what the SS is trying to achieve, then we can support with helpful suggestions to achieve that goal, even if it means upsetting the 'core'.

The example I made above was based on if the goal is to get more competitors involved and to do that means a change that upsets some of the 'core' but gains 50 new entrants, surely we'd consider that a success?

[Terry Everall]

Barny...or anyone else for that matter. What do you think the the SSOT are trying to do for the existing and future competitors?

I know what I think but maybe you have different ideas?

[Barry S]

Barny, I agree we need to understand the objective and then work towards this and yes I would have done Gurston had I been competing this year.

There is however something that has bugged me for a while so this seams the time to air it.

we appear to be selecting venues on a time on the track (either number of runs or event length) must mean better value for money?

i don’t entirely agree, for me one of the core skills of sprint and hill climbs is the ability to extract maximum performance from 2/3 timed runs I.e the ability to be “on it”from the outset dealing with whatever the conditions throw at you.

IMHO when you get beyond 3 timed runs, times don’t get much faster and it simply becomes a battle of who is the bravest or to put it another way who has the balls to take the most risks, not nesesarily the most skill, yep controversial I know!

Some of my most satisfying events have had only 2 timed runs, because I felt I had extracted the maximum when the pressure was on to perform with no options to have another run if I cocked up,,, in fact my best day ever consisted of a single short timed run.

I’m in no way comparing myself but there is a reason drivers like Hamilton and Senna are considered the best of the best, there ability to perform that one perfect qualifying lap when the pressure is on,,,

i guess it boils down to how you view value for money, quality v quantity, I know which I prefer

ta

Barry

 

[Mark Stanton]

32 minutes ago, John said:

When I first started off competing, one of the biggest attractions was the amount of other like minded Westfield and SS competitors in the paddock who were available to help and offer advice if needed along with the camaraderie. With low entries at some events this would be lacking for newcomers

I see no reason in upsetting the core at the expense of the minority.

John sadly the numbers are no longer there - The SS started with around 20 in its first year and within just a few short years was 100+ - full of newcomers and from other championships incl us both that was then - its different times now.

As it stands you are always going to upset the minority because with only 47 registered drivers (how many will actually compete for a full championship number of events) everyone is in the minority  time to change the business model, get new blood in tap into the WSCC enthusiasm and make it attractive in a new way, not re-hash the old model. Talk to every driver, talk to every event organiser, steal ideas

[B.RAD]

^ what he said!

Just trying to help Terry. Define the goal for us and we can all chip in.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

17 minutes ago, Mark Stanton - WSCC Sponsors and Promotions said:

John sadly the numbers are no longer there - The SS started with around 20 in its first year and within just a few short years was 100+ - full of newcomers and from other championships incl us both that was then - its different times now.

As it stands you are always going to upset the minority because with only 47 registered drivers (how many will actually compete for a full championship number of events) everyone is in the minority  time to change the business model, get new blood in tap into the WSCC enthusiasm and make it attractive in a new way, not re-hash the old model. Talk to every driver, talk to every event organiser, steal ideas

Yet only 4 people are complaining out of 47 regarding the possible removal of Gurston so your comment doesn't make sense. If it was 40 out of 47 then so be it

[Marto303]

20 minutes ago, terry everall said:

Barny...or anyone else for that matter. What do you think the the SSOT are trying to do for the existing and future competitors?

I know what I think but maybe you have different ideas?

Terry

Could you please explain how the SSOT see dropping low attendance events helps protect the future of the series ? 

I would have thought that the WSCC supporting other clubs events, even if with only a small number of entrants was better than not supporting them at all. We would then hope to see reciprocal support for our own events. 

 

 

[Terry Everall]

Martin

My original post suggested it would be under review for next year just like all the other events. However I do think we need to hear what people say about the number of events in our calendar. If I was a newcomer I would hate to go to an event where there were almost no SS competitors