HANS STICKERS - MSA

[Terry Everall]

The MSA have mandated that from this season every Hans Device must carry an MSA approved sticker. These stickers are available from scrutineers at a cost of £2.50 and at Croft the scrutineers applied them to the Hans Device themselves.

[B.RAD]

Thanks Terry, appreciate the sharing of info here as wouldn't have expected this otherwise. Any idea as to why? 

[Crash test dummy]

K10.4.1 of the BB.

 

[XTR2Turbo]

Out of interest, if you opt to use a Hans device, but don't need to in the class, does it still need a sticker?

 

[Crash test dummy]

18 minutes ago, XTR2Turbo said:

Out of interest, if you opt to use a Hans device, but don't need to in the class, does it still need a sticker?

 

More than likely knowing the MSA.

[Paul Morcom]

33 minutes ago, XTR2Turbo said:

Out of interest, if you opt to use a Hans device, but don't need to in the class, does it still need a sticker?

 

David,

You must have encountered hard times if you are worried about a £2.50 sticker . May I suggest slightly less right foot pressure when driving some of your cars and the £2.50 will soon be saved.

My view would be no, not required.  If there it is not an MSA requirement to wear FHR in your class then I cannot see the MSA insisting that you meet the requirement for a sticker to be applied. However I would keep a spare £2.50 in your bag just in case you encounter a difficult scrutineer.

The reason I give this is that my sprint/hillclimb single seater does not require a fire extinguisher, however I have one fitted but is not "in date". MSA regs now say that extinguishers have to be "in date" and serviced every 2 years. I questioned the MSA on whether the "in date" and 2 year service is requirement is applicable if the regs don't actually require a fire extinguisher but I have one fitted - they came back and said no, did not need to be "in date" for sprints/hillclimbs cars. I am taking a copy of the email to all events to show an over cautious scrutineer.

Paul

[Terry Everall]

Paul that is strange because I alway "understood" that if you had something on the car it had to work whether or not it was in MSA book

For example if you are in Road Going class and decide to fit a full cage ( which is not a requirement) I bet it would fail scrutineering if it was not to MSA requirements

I also used to have a plumbed in fire extinguisher (which I did not need) and it was always checked to in date and trigger system tested by nearly all the scruts.

[Terry Everall]

I think that there have been some cheap "foreign copy devices" so the sticker helps denote it is a genuine piece of safety equipment

[Paul Morcom]

1 minute ago, terry everall said:

Paul that is strange because I alway "understood" that if you had something on the car it had to work whether or not it was in MSA book

For example if you are in Road Going class and decide to fit a full cage ( which is not a requirement) I bet it would fail scrutineering if it was not to MSA requirements

I also used to have a plumbed in fire extinguisher (which I did not need) and it was always checked to in date and trigger system tested by nearly all the scruts.

There is no consistency in the scrutineering across the UK. I have always had a fire extinguisher fitted and has never been checked! Though I did have my rear fog light checked on my roadgoing Westfield - an essential safety deveice!

In the end I have an email from MSA Technical to say that it does not have to be in date. So I would be surprised if a scrutineer on the day would actually challenge that email.

You would be proud - my email saved me a three hundred quid in new fire extinguishers!

RE_ Fire extinguisher for Hillclimb and Sprint.pdf

[Terry Everall]

That could be useful for some people Paul

[XTR2Turbo]

1 hour ago, Paul Morcom said:

David,

You must have encountered hard times if you are worried about a £2.50 sticker . May I suggest slightly less right foot pressure when driving some of your cars and the £2.50 will soon be saved.

My view would be no, not required.  If there it is not an MSA requirement to wear FHR in your class then I cannot see the MSA insisting that you meet the requirement for a sticker to be applied. However I would keep a spare £2.50 in your bag just in case you encounter a difficult scrutineer.

Thanks Paul

it is quite serious..  I may have to forego a 99 ice cream so I have change for a sticker.

joking aside I really can't see the point in this and hate needless job creation but if they are the rules.. 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

My understanding is because of the copies that have been found. It's quite a big problem, bigger that you might think.  Things like FIA Rally Seats get copied as well. if you can make money by copying it and sticking a label on it, then it appears that someone, somewhere will do it. As to the sticker they are like the helmet stickers, if you talk to MSA Tech Dept then the stickers are there so that Scrutineers or any other officials can easily see cars that are lined up ready to start and do a quick check that the driver has suitable helmet & now Hans. Makes sense to me, and ultimately the blame should lie with the copiers. There is of course another aspect, which is who's to say the driver may not have put a different helmet/Hans on, again this is a quick check. 

I get Scrutineers News each month and I've got to say that some of what you see competitors trying to get away with in there makes you realise why these rules end up being brought in. 

[Scottish Bloke]

A charming gentleman applied one to my HANS today without a word, then didn't for any cash.

Suited me fine 

[B.RAD]

If someone is capable of forging a Hans device, are they not capable of forging an MSA sticker?

I just feel sorry for the ice cream man. David was his best customer 

[XTR2Turbo]

1 hour ago, Nick - Joint North East AO said:

My understanding is because of the copies that have been found. It's quite a big problem, bigger that you might think.  Things like FIA Rally Seats get copied as well. if you can make money by copying it and sticking a label on it, then it appears that someone, somewhere will do it. As to the sticker they are like the helmet stickers, if you talk to MSA Tech Dept then the stickers are there so that Scrutineers or any other officials can easily see cars that are lined up ready to start and do a quick check that the driver has suitable helmet & now Hans. Makes sense to me, and ultimately the blame should lie with the copiers. There is of course another aspect, which is who's to say the driver may not have put a different helmet/Hans on, again this is a quick check. 

I get Scrutineers News each month and I've got to say that some of what you see competitors trying to get away with in there makes you realise why these rules end up being brought in. 

It still doesn't make sense to me / feels like a crude measure.  I can see it saves time with helmets as the manufacturer stickers are often inside the helmet and can take some reaching and there is a risk of dropping when checking.  With Hans they are in a pretty obvious place and easy to check.

Assuming the scrutinisers are able to identify a fake that should be dealt with more seriously than not giving it a sticker !!