Ford rant......

[Lyonspride]

 

Been trying do a full disc/pad change on my 09 Mondeo, 3 weeks in and i'm still getting nowhere.

I keep jacking the car up, getting the wheels off, starting the job and then finding I need an odd socket/bit size that doesn't come with standard kits.

7mm hex for slider bolts, 18mm socket for front calliper bolts, 15mm socket for rear calliper bolts, T50 torx for the rear disc retaining bolt.

 

I mean seriously, this just makes it difficult on the home mechanic, it doesn't force them into dealerships, so what's the point of being such idiots about it?

Build quality on this car had me questioning whether i'd buy another, the single use plastic clips that snap off whenever you need to fix something (and only Ford sell them), but now with this I can categorically say this is the last time I ever buy a Ford. To deliberately use fastener sizes that the average home mechanic cannot work with, it's lowest of the low.

 

 

[Olliebeak]

I remember similar issues when I had my Mondeo,,  the thing that annoys me most is these small bolts with an allen key or torx head, whats wrong with a normal hex bolt that you get get a socket or spanner on.

Just spent an hour attempting to replace the rear silencers on my Alfa Brera, got the boxes loose ready to slide off but need to remove a piece of plastic trim first, this is held on by four allen key headed bolts , which are that tight I snapped the head off an allen key attempting to loosen them, gave up went home and had a cup of tea may renew battle tomorrow with my big drill.   

[Lyonspride]

I'm just concerned that i'm going to get these brakes stripped down and then find I need another odd sized tool, leaving me with a car and no working brakes.

I also know (it's clearly obvious) that this is what Ford intended, to discourage home mechanics.
I've managed to source a whole bunch of plastic trim clips from China, so I can re-attach my lower door seals in about 4 weeks time, but for 1/10th of the UK price.

Another job I wanted to do was replace the 3rd brake light bulbs with super bright LED bulbs, but given that gaining access means breaking all the trim clips on the tailgate and having no trim until I get those specific clips (and I won't know what they look like until I do it), i've been thinking about taking a hole saw to the general area and getting my arm in that way.

[DonPeffers]

I reckon you're correct Lyonspride and car makers do make things difficult just to get most owners to the dealers.

What is the point of Torx? OK I've got a set but only after finding out that's what I needed to remove Fabia trim in order to adjust handbrake.

[Greenstreak-Andy D]

Bmw front pads, you need a 7mm Allen key too. So not just Ford!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

My Audi A6 and A4 needed a 7 mm Allen key too for the front callipers, it’s very common.

[Lyonspride]

I've just gone through my socket sets and ordered individual sockets to make up for what's missing, stupidly I only seem to be missing 9mm, 18mm and 20mm. Got them each as 1/2inch 6 point walldrives, but i've also got myself a 15mm of the same ilk for when I come to the rear brakes, as not confident a 15mm 3/8 12 pointer can really handle 120nm of torque.

It's still looking a lot cheaper than having generic/cheap brakes fitted at a garage, but my patience has now worn thin!
 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

I’d change where you’re buying your tools for a start!

My garage tools have all those sockets in both 1/2 and 3/8 sizes, (nothing spectacular brand wise, just Teng) my 1/4” teng has everything up to 13mm.

And the Halfords Pro set I have for work covers all those sixes, again with some in both 1/2 and 3/8 versions.

7mm Allen keys are a little more unusual, but three of the four sets I seem to have ended up with have them!

[Lyonspride]

2 hours ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

I’d change where you’re buying your tools for a start!

My garage tools have all those sockets in both 1/2 and 3/8 sizes, (nothing spectacular brand wise, just Teng) my 1/4” teng has everything up to 13mm.

And the Halfords Pro set I have for work covers all those sixes, again with some in both 1/2 and 3/8 versions.

7mm Allen keys are a little more unusual, but three of the four sets I seem to have ended up with have them!

In the early days I picked a lot of individual tools, so I just kept buying individual items.
I'm always quite reluctant to go for the all in one solution, mostly because I always find these kits contain items that nobody will ever use and are just bundled in to increase the number of "pcs". Up until the last few days I simply thought that 18mm and 20mm sockets just were not a thing, after all we're on the metric system and metric bolt sizes are very standardised, you don't get an 18mm head on a standard metric bolt and that is probably why the socket sets don't have that size.

I just find it a little underhand for a vehicle manufacturer to go to such lengths as to actually note what tools most people won't have in a standard socket set, then activity seek a supplier to make bolts in those odd sizes and then those exclusively on their vehicles. The French did this 20 odd years ago, using security TORX bits for everything, back when the average human did not have access to those tools.

 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Unusual head sizes on bolts are used for all sorts of reasons, as are odd size bolts for that matter, but even my dads old socket set from his post war night school car maintenance lessons had the full range of sizes from 8mm to 22mm, so odd head sizes are rarely for the reasons you suggest I suspect. It costs more than it saves when factored across whole production runs.

Thats not to say odd fasteners aren't used to make access trickier, and I suspect the 7mm Allen et requirement falls solidly in that camp!

Equally Tory, then securityTorx, then Spline, Ribe etc are all used to make access trickier. (Though they have other advantages too, like more positive engagement of the tool to the fastener head, I suspect that's not the major consideration when they're selected a lot of the time.)

Equally, I can't abide the one shot trim clips either. But many manufacturers are guilty of that.

[Blatman]

So lets get this right Lyonspride. You don't have the right tools and it's Fords fault because they are idiots?

Really?

 

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

No, if I’ve understood correctly, he doesn’t have the right tools because he refuses to buy proper full sets of them, on the basis that some will never be used.

It is then Fords problem, when some of the sockets etc that are never used are, well, needed!

 

[DonPeffers]

I'm still getting over having to replace my Imperial set.

[Kit Car Electronics]

If you think rationally about this, all mass-produced cars are designed to be assembled, maintained and repaired as reliably and quickly as possible to hopefully make profit for the manufacturer. Unfortunately that often means special tools or unusual sizes - but to suggest it's done deliberately to frustrate a home mechanic is fairly ludicrous - even though it often feels that way...

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Indeed, if a manufacturer the size of Ford, dealing with the volumes they do on their models could save a few pence a car by u I FYI get some fixing sizes, they would, as it would represent a massive overal saving. 

I’ve often wondered whether the 7mm Allen key thing came about when more and more brake callipers only needed one mounting pin removing, before they could be swung “open” and the pads removed.