Autonomous cars

[DonPeffers]

I guess an alert human would have reacted by braking or swerving as soon as the pedestrian's trainers were visible (only one second before collision) and very possibly would have used main beam in such a poorly lit area, with dipped beam available when oncoming traffic approached.

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

The sad part about that video is I would have expected an Autonomous vehicle with better camera systems ie infra red and a computer system that can detect a collision like that about to happen to have reacted and tried to stop the car. Don't think a human driver would have done any better. So obviously these cars really need a bit more developement first.

[Kevin Wood]

I also wonder if the vehicle was electric? It seems strange that a pedestrian with a bicycle would cross ahead of an approaching vehicle that they apparently didn't hear or see right up to the point of impact. Could it be that the vehicle was so quiet it wasn't heard approaching? Did it have conventional headlights or something less powerful? The pedestrian could have been hard of hearing, I suppose.

I've come across cyclists without lights and pedestrians with dark clothes when driving at night before and not had much time to avoid them, but for them seemingly not to know the car is approaching is more surprising.

[DonPeffers]

2 hours ago, Kevin Wood said:

I also wonder if the vehicle was electric? It seems strange that a pedestrian with a bicycle would cross ahead of an approaching vehicle that they apparently didn't hear or see right up to the point of impact. Could it be that the vehicle was so quiet it wasn't heard approaching? Did it have conventional headlights or something less powerful? The pedestrian could have been hard of hearing, I suppose.

I've come across cyclists without lights and pedestrians with dark clothes when driving at night before and not had much time to avoid them, but for them seemingly not to know the car is approaching is more surprising.

The car involved, Volvo XC90, is available as petrol/electric Hybrid. It had also crossed my mind that it might have been in electric mode if it was the hybrid model.

From Google---"General information about XC90 Twin Engine - Volvo Cars Support

https://support.volvocars.com/uk/cars/Pages/owners-manual.aspx?mc...my...

Remember that the car does not emit any engine noise when it is only powered by the electric motor and may therefore be difficult to notice by children, ."

[Kevin Wood]

Interesting bit of video purporting to be the same section of road, at night, showing rather better lighting conditions than implied by Uber's video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRW0q8i3u6E&feature=youtu.be

I don't think anyone could argue that a human driver wouldn't have had a chance to avoid the pedestrian in those conditions.

[DonPeffers]

And much better car headlights seemingly.

Report I read said car doing 38mph or 56 feet per second and had 50 foot margin to react after pedestrian visible, which gives only 0.9 seconds to react. Lidar is said to have a 200 metre range.

Would a human, in the Arizona situation, drive with only 50 feet of visibility (yes we know plenty do in fog on the motorway and we know what can happen) or would they use main beam?

If the Uber car was in silent electric mode with poor headlights it might explain how the pedestrian seemed so badly caught out with fatal consequences.

[Kevin Wood]

Agreed.

It does make me wonder, though, if the camera was defective, or they've "doctored" the video to make it look like the accident was unavoidable.

[pistonbroke]

The video looks unatural and doctored to me , interesting point about electric cars running in stealth mode .

Another thing is background lighting , very easy for car running lights to blend in with  street lamps , other cars lights , so neither visible nor audible to pedestrians 

[SootySport]

Here's an interesting article, Who's to blame for Autonomous car accidents http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-5467519/Driverless-car-crashes-blame.html  Not to be decided for 3 years.

[DonPeffers]

I guess Governments and the Law will be playing catch up with the technology.

Just seen   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43604440

Headline--Tesla in fatal California crash was on Autopilot.

Crash happened 23 March 2018.

[corsechris]

Just a point of order, an EV (or hybrid running on battery) is far from silent at normal speeds. The tyre noise is a major factor when a vehicle approaches from the front, unless it is spectacularly noisy, the bulk of the ICE noise comes out the sides and back. This based purely on my own experience of frequent walks in the countryside. The only stuff I hear coming just on engine noise are things like V8 jags and chav chariots.

At low speeds though, yes, they can indeed be very quiet. I'm always exceptionally careful in carparks when in my hybrid, assuming it is in EV mode. 

Probably unavoidable, but the person sat in the driving seat seemed pretty intent on their phone, just glancing out the window periodically. Can't have helped.

I confess to mixed feelings about the whole thing though. It is big news when one of these things messes up, and of course, it is a personal tragedy for those directly involved. But, we seem perfectly happy on the whole with the level of carnage (pun intended) that results from non-autonomous vehicles. Without some meaningful stats, we can't possibly have any idea whether these things are safer or more dangerous than Joe Average behind the wheel.

I can see the appeal of autonomy for those cursed with a boring commute but can't see it appealing to me personally.

There are already plenty of vehicles on the road that are driven as if they are autonomous, simply by using their 'driver aids'. There are also plenty driven by people who pay about as much attention to the road as the person sat in the Uber.

 

As I say, mixed feelings about it all. But, I can't help thinking that it is coming, like it or not, as there are some potential significant changes in transportation that can follow once full autonomy becomes common, that I can see appealing to government.

[Alan France]

Fully agree with Corsechris, on our third hybrid and the real risk to pedestrians due to lack of noise, is in the range of 5-10 mph. Over that road noise reduces the risk.

Sadly there will be more accidents but as pointed out, nothing compared to real people driving.

X years time, autonomous trains, planes and cars will be the norm. The Docklands Light Railway has been driverless since 1987 and nobody notices.

Cars are a bit harder but bring it on. Taking my in laws 200 miles to their home tomorrow, wouldn’t it be great if I could tell our car to take them home and be back by teatime?

[DonPeffers]

Volvo's driverless cars 'confused' by kangaroos   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40416606

I thought Aussies just fitted roo bars and carried on.

[SootySport]

I used to rely on my hearing for avoiding approaching cars when crossing a road, a cursory look one way but not looking all ways.    Had a very close encounter with a Prius last year when it was in stealth mode, never heard a thing, luckily the driver stopped literally  2".from my knee.     I now actually look all ways for traffic when crossing roads and the words "Think Prius" are in my head.