John K Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41454712 I used to be a ridiculously frequent flyer and I have to admit this would have shaken me, but there does seems to be a mix of things to think. Planes are designed to lose X% of their engines and still make it across the Atlantic. So no worries here... I'm not a plane engineer but it looks like it lost a blade in the first compressor fan. Which all engines are tested for, but the bang would still make me spill my G&T So we have 2 'survivable' incidents - expect I thought it was a design condition that the cowling had to contain a "blade off" event (video shows a test of an A380 RR engine) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j973645y5AA @ 04:20 Because if the fan blade went through the wing or the cowling went through the wing, it would all get a bit messy. So I'm guessing there will be a few late nights up Derby way... Quote
Trevor Little (Trevturtle) - Treasurer Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 I think the engine was a joint general electric Pratt and Whitney engine. By the look of the picture the whole fan (l.p. compressor) has gone . If i am correct?....The picture shows the inlet to the next compressor (the hot engine core) The big problem is when compressor fails (or goes missing) the turbine has nothing to drive so over speeds...not good Quote
Thrustyjust Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 Its a mechanical object and these things can go wrong. However much you maintain and life engine components, there will always be an element of risk being in an airplane. Luckily , these failures are few and far between, such as the Quantas one that also damaged the wing etc. I guess fitting protection to the wings is potentially a way they may be thinking , such as Concordes fuel tanks after the Paris crash. I think with having 4 engines, there is always 3 more left , as opposed to having 2, which is what airlines are looking to change to , for fuel useage being less , but you also have 4 engines that can go wrong. Quote
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Trevturtle said: I think the engine was a joint general electric Pratt and Whitney engine. By the look of the picture the whole fan (l.p. compressor) has gone . If i am correct?....The picture shows the inlet to the next compressor (the hot engine core) The big problem is when compressor fails (or goes missing) the turbine has nothing to drive so over speeds...not good Yes it's an engine alliance ge/Pratt engine vs a Rolls which cut a hole in the wing on the Qantas. It looks to me at first look the fan hub has detached/failed or a sheared shaft allowing the fan to destroy the fan casing. Im not type rated on the 380 so am not overly clued up on the EA engine though. Most engine types I've worked generally have a last ditch mechanism to prevent overspeeds in this situation. Ie the unloaded shaft will move aft into other structure to slow it down rather than spinning up into Armageddon. Still destroys the engine but in a "contained" fashion. On the old 2 vs 4 engines debate. The newer 2 engine aircraft are now getting approvals to fly 330 or 370 max diversion time. Scary. Quote
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 Bit more of a close up pic courtesy of avherald.com With that level of disruption with that force im surprised a. The fuse pins on the engine didn't shear and the engine stayed attached. And b. Not more damage to the wing leading edge. Quote
Thrustyjust Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 So these fuse pins. Does that mean an engine thats gone big time pop, could potentially get dumped off the wing in flight? Quote
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 Yes. If an engine violently let's go the shear pins will allow the engine to detach to prevent it destroying the wing (And therefore the entire aircraft) And also to prevent rupturing the main wing tanks. 1 Quote
Thrustyjust Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, sdh2903 said: Yes. If an engine violently let's go the shear pins will allow the engine to detach to prevent it destroying the wing (And therefore the entire aircraft) And also to prevent rupturing the main wing tanks. Is it a common thing to happen? Would the unweighting of the engine taking an early landing then unbalance the plane ? Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 Well the pilots would certainly earn their money flying and landing the plane with not just an engine down, but completely missing! I suppose you just have to take the pragmatic view, that on land at least, the falling engine could be troublesome, ahem. The complete plane coming down instead would be much more so. Still staggers me how much of the engine was gone though. Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 Apropos of nothing, but speaking of amazing damaged aircraft pictures, has anyone seen the footage of the fighter, I think, that looses most of a wing, but isn’t just kept in flight, it’s actually pretty much brought home! Quote
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 No only probably a handful of times I've read about. And some of these occasions due to incorrect maintenance or corrosion in the pins on older aircraft in say lesser stringent countries. On a 4 donkey aircraft such as the 380 or 747 they would certainly notice the thrust imbalance rather than the loss of weight on one wing. Smaller twin engined aircraft more so obviously. But it's so rare for a modern turbofan engine to let go in such a fashion. Yes they have individual component failures but very very rarely a catastrophic uncontained failure. Quote
Steve (sdh2903) Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: Apropos of nothing, but speaking of amazing damaged aircraft pictures, has anyone seen the footage of the fighter, I think, that looses most of a wing, but isn’t just kept in flight, it’s actually pretty much brought home! Yes I've seen that and also a good read is the story of the DHL aircraft that was shot at by an Rpg if I remember right in Iraq and they managed to land successfully. 1 Quote
John K Posted October 1, 2017 Author Posted October 1, 2017 32 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: Apropos of nothing, but speaking of amazing damaged aircraft pictures, has anyone seen the footage of the fighter, I think, that looses most of a wing, but isn’t just kept in flight, it’s actually pretty much brought home! Are you talking about Capt Campbell and her A10? Which along with the SR71 is a contender for my favorite plane ever... If you are, this article might be of interest as it was 'one' of the Hogs shot up over the last few years http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Stories1/001-100/0016_A-10-battle-damage/story0016.htm Google "Damaged A10" and look at some of the pictures I was lucky to hear these things weapons testing when in Kuwait - and the only weapon worth mentioning is the GAU 30mm - sounded like the sky was being torn apart Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted October 1, 2017 Posted October 1, 2017 No, it was an Israeli F15, a bit of documentary here, (reconstructions, plus pilot interview and photos of the damage) Even MacDonald Douglas didn’t believe it until the aircraft was examined! 1 Quote
John K Posted October 1, 2017 Author Posted October 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said: Even MacDonald Douglas didn’t believe it until the aircraft was examined! Good God... That wins... 1 Quote
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