F1 crash Singapore

[DonPeffers]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/17/vettel-verstappen-raikkonen-cleared-crash/

Stewards cleared all three and declared a racing incident.

I didn't see the race; only the news coverage which showed Vettel well off the racing line and with three cars space to his right.

What is the view of the collective?

[AdamR]

4 minutes ago, DonPeffers said:

Vettel well off the racing line and with three cars space to his right.

Didn't even think of that before you mentioned it...

I would say racing incident. 3 confident and forceful drivers trying to get into the first corner ahead of each other, often ends in tears! I'm a bit gutted for Alonso as he may have been in with a shout of an amazing result given the car.

[Man On The Clapham Omnibus]

I reluctantly agree that it was a racing incident because any other verdict could have looked vindictive. John Watson on Radio 4 this morning said Verstappen was the guilty party for not backing out of the situation, but my view is that he was the most innocent. Kimi pushed up into a narrow(ing) gap and reaped the likely consequences, and Vettell was boorish and bullying as usual and took out his team mate and Max in the process of trying to thwart Max's attempt to take the lead. Vettell did veer violently across the bows of Max without ensuring he was actually clear of him and that was the nub of it IMHO. Max hit Kimi before Vettell made contact with anyone but it was an avoiding manoeuvre occasioned by Sebastian's shoulder charge threat. It was a good outcome for Lewis but it did spoil what should have been a very interesting race. I fell asleep for most of the remaining procession, sorry, race. 

[Onliest Smeg David]

In balance it's a racing incident, borderline though imo and could have easily gone other way if the mood had been to punish someone for such a mess at the start.

If one HAD to be blamed then it would have been Vettell as his movement was marked and agressive moving quickly off his line. But he couldn't get points due to being near his limit and resulting action would have had a bigger impact on race for the Championship.

[Captain Colonial]

Verstappen certainly the most sinned against, the unintentional meat in a Ferrari sandwich.  Three cars going side by side into a turn was always going to be dicey.  However, Kimi had the inside line, and he and Verstappen did not turn - Vettel moved sharp left to try to take the inside line and force Verstappen to back off.  It's one of his aggressive bullying tactics and finally bit him back when it wasn't clear to do so.  Even the greenest driver knows you can't win the race at the first corner.  I'm laying the blame for this one firmly on Vettel's shoulders, but of course he gets away with it, the same way he got away with deliberately sideswipeing Hamilton behind a safety car.  Richly deserved DNF though, but unhappy for Kimi and Max.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

I must be a harsh critic. I saw it as vettels fault all day long. Veered a long way at a sharp angle in poor visibility conditions. Verstappen and kimi no where to go.

Alonso and kimi had unbelievable starts and sadly taken out. Alonso's car must be seriously well built to continue as long as it did after his shunt and the amount of damage it had.

The only consolation being the biggest loser was vettel and it was all his own doing. Hamilton's title to lose now he's on an amazing run of form and more mercedes friendly tracks to come.

[Mighty Mart]

Would the same ruling have been made if Hamilton had shut the door I wonder...

[djm]

35 minutes ago, sdh2903 said:

 I saw it as vettels fault all day long. Veered a long way at a sharp angle in poor visibility conditions. Verstappen and kimi no where to go.

 

I totally agree. Vettel had the most to lose and I'm not shedding any tears for him for what happened. But he ruined three other drivers race as a result of his aggressive manoeuvre and got off scot free. Schumacher got away with exactly the same manoeuvre for years, which I didn't agree with then, so he's going to continue in the same way even though he took out 20% of the field in one foul swoop!

I agree that Verstappen was an innocent party as he did successfully brake to avoid Vettel and didn't hit him and allowed Kimi further into the decreasing gap. I don't want to sanitise the sport but when it affects so many other drivers and 20% of the field its not right! With such a small field (20 cars) these days they need as many cars as they can to finish. 20 cars or less stretched out around a 2 mile circuit is not much of a viewing spectacle. In the good old days they used to have qualifying to get into official qualifying for a place on a 32 car grid as there were too many entrants!

[Paul Hurdsfield - Joint Manchester AO]

1 hour ago, Man On The Clapham Omnibus said:

John Watson on Radio 4 this morning said Verstappen was the guilty party for not backing out of the situation, 

And that's the reason John Watson was never going to be a world champion, he would have backed out of it.

While we are quoting old drivers.

Jackie Stewart always said "you cant win a race at the first corner, but you can certainly lose it" and now it looks like Vettel (the guilty party) has lost the championship as well as that race.

What looked like a great race for the championship has now been taken away from the fans, barring a miracle from Ferrari.

[pistonbroke]

Sat down expecting a really good F1 race for once due to the wet conditions and hoping to see a bit of magic from Verstappen .  200 yds down the road after the start and the race is over , Huge dissapointment caused by a ridiculously stupid manouver , totaly idiotic in my view and straight out of the Schumaker book of "Race Driving for Dummies"   

Have to wonder what vettels comments would have been had the roles been reversed and Max or anyone else had cut across the track and caused the melee .

Hamilton must have been laughing his head off at the outcome   

Only consolation for me was sefac ferrari got what they deserved . 

[Blatman]

3 hours ago, Mighty Mart said:

Would the same ruling have been made if Hamilton had shut the door I wonder...

Would the same ruling have been made if there were no Ferrari's in the mix?

Plus a German World Champion in a Ferrari gets an easy ride from the Stewards/FIA? Sounds familiar...

For me Vettel was the most to blame. He gets away with it because a 5 place grid penalty at the next race would *definitely* hand the championship to Hamilton,, all things being equal and given that the next two or three races are at tracks that favour the Mercs. A racing incident with no penalties will make for better entertainment (well, you know what I mean) on the run in to what should now be Hamiltons 4th World Championship.

[John K]

When I saw it happen one thing that crossed my mind was Hamilton was so far away from the mess, it was almost as if he had looked at the grid and predicted Vettle was going to pull his signature move againt folk who are not easily intimidated and stayed clear.

Does anybody think Vettle will learn or change as a result of this?

[corsechris]

There is way too much of the Schumacher's about Vettel these days. No denying their ability, but their tactics stink.  Got what he deserved for that schoolboy error.

Shame about Max & Kimi and particularly Fernando though.

Also a shame to see that Ferrari International Assistance is still ruling the roost. They hand out grid penalties like sweeties for next to nothing...unless the car is bright red. If Vettel wasn't driving a red car he'd have enough points for a ban by now.

[John K]

41 minutes ago, corsechris said:

Ferrari International Assistance

That made me laugh... Shame it's true.

In some ways I see a subset of the FIFA mindset developing here - Ferrari seems themselves as F1 and F1 can't see themselves without Ferrari and once that rot sets in, all sorts of weird stuff happens afterwards.

In a lot of ways I think Porsche have done exactly the right thing. IM(H)O given a few years to get into the swing of it, Porsche are probably a team who could hand Ferrari's arses to them on a plate. Technically...

But they recognize they would never be allowed to compete on a level playing field so don't even bother and instead put their efforts into Le Mans (which in every way is a better motor sport event than F1)

[Blatman]

Don't think we'll see Porsche in F1. I'm betting Audi join in 2020 at the advent of a new Concord Agreement and likely rule changes.

That said Chase Carey is wanting to remove/replace the agreement which could be interesting.