Performance query

[jimbobtcc206]

I'm in the market for a Westfield that I want to mainly use for track days. It will be road legal however.

Im doing lots of research to figure out what I want and I'm getting some pax time on an upcoming track day.

My query is generic as I know so many factors affect this, but, I like a mega s2000 but I've also seen a well sorted 1.6 SBD spec Vauxhall ecotec for sale. In performance terms I'm guessing the s2000 will weigh c.600-650kg giving power to weight of c. 370-400bhp/t. The other is c.184bhp weighs 509kg and has a decent straight cut box. Theoretically c. 360bhp/t but with an equally well sorted chassis and a better box. Real world performance would I really notice a difference between the two on a track that would warrant an 8k price difference?

what are people's experiences/thoughts?

thanks

[Andy (Sycho)]

I don't think there would be much difference on track between the two with each having strengths in different places.

The only thing which would concern me is reliability as I presume the 1.6 is heavily modified & s2000 is not, but saying that it would be expensive if you had problems with either.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

They're likely to be two quite different feeling cars. 

You might even be a wee bit optimistic on those S2000 weights!

To be perfectly honest, on a tight, twisty circuit, I'm afraid to say, the smaller car is quite likely to walk all over (a standard at least,) S2000.  

The S2000's greatest enemies are it's weight and it's less than ideal gearing. It masks these somewhat by having one of the best engines to grace a Westfield, and a power delivery that really suits the car. 

However, on the aforementioned tight twisty circuit, where you're struggling to get the S2000 fully into its ballistic zone all the time, the speed that a massively lighter car can carry, slow and accelerate is a real leveller.

Having driven a big standard 1.6 Sigma powered car, which is a real light weight, it has a sense of delicacy and nimbleness that the Mega S2000 just doesn't.

That said though, the minute you throw long straights (on track), or real world overtakes and longer distances (on the road) into the equation and the S2000 starts to really get into its own. Once you're blasting past 5000 rpm in the gears, it's really ballistic.

I dare say, with plenty of track prep and light weight materials you could get the Mega S2000 weight down to even the gap somewhat, but the reality is, with a gearbox virtually twice the weight of a track ready SC Type 9 and a heavy engine, it will always be an uphill battle to get the weight under control. (You've only got to look at the S2000 powered car Mickmade built years ago, to see how much he had to put into weight saving...)

[6carjon]

Don't forget whatever you weigh 

You will make a big difference to the overall weight of the car.

For race use power is everything.for road use torque will help pull the overall weight of you and car along.

Depends what you drive yourself as a comparison  as all westies are fast 

[DonPeffers]

12 minutes ago, 6carjon said:

Don't forget whatever you weigh 

You will make a big difference to the overall weight of the car.

The driver weight makes up a fair percentage of the total in a lightweight kitcar.

After giving up booze I dropped from 86kg to 69kg and the car does seem to accelerate better.

[jimbobtcc206]

Thanks for the replies. I thought I wasn't being particularly daft but I was struggling to get over the whole it's only a 1600cc thing in my head.

The 1600 is tuned but not to what I would class as highly so. It has the right bits to assist reliability....rods, pistons, dry sump and a sensible enough rev limit.

Ill see how things look after I've been in a couple of other cars on track.

[Onliest Smeg David]

My money would go on the 1600.

[TAFKARM]

Buy the zetec turbo that's just appeared in the classifieds....

[jimbobtcc206]

10 minutes ago, RussH said:

Buy the zetec turbo that's just appeared in the classifieds....

I know that would make a lively car to say the least but I just cant bring myself to get excited by forced induction. I love the sound of an n/a car on ITB's. We had a golf r and whilst it was quick all I could tell the Mrs was that I miss the sound of TB's. I think I'd regret buying that car after a while.

[Kingster]

In that case light weight, tuned and high revs fits the bill. Thought about a BEC? 

[jimbobtcc206]

2 minutes ago, Chris King - Webmaster and Joint North East AO said:

In that case light weight, tuned and high revs fits the bill. Thought about a BEC? 

Yes I've thought about it so much and I think that would be ideal but I'm really worried and hung up about:

1. Track day noise limits - will I be able to get noise levels down easily?

2. Reliability and cost to maintain.

Ive no real basis for the above other than snippets I've read here and there.

[TAFKARM]

It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast. 

[Kingster]

51 minutes ago, jimbobtcc206 said:

Yes I've thought about it so much and I think that would be ideal but I'm really worried and hung up about:

1. Track day noise limits - will I be able to get noise levels down easily?

2. Reliability and cost to maintain.

Ive no real basis for the above other than snippets I've read here and there.

Well plenty of BECs on track days so can't be out of the question. 

As for reliability we have two turbo hayabusas in our regular crew who seem to have no more issues than anyone else. 

Personally, I'm totally happy with my humble 2.0 Zetec for mostly road and occasional track use - but if I wanted a more track focussed car it would be a bike engined screamer I reckon. 

Just my view of course 

[KrisC2]

9 hours ago, jimbobtcc206 said:

I'm in the market for a Westfield that I want to mainly use for track days. It will be road legal however.

Im doing lots of research to figure out what I want and I'm getting some pax time on an upcoming track day.

My query is generic as I know so many factors affect this, but, I like a mega s2000 but I've also seen a well sorted 1.6 SBD spec Vauxhall ecotec for sale. In performance terms I'm guessing the s2000 will weigh c.600-650kg giving power to weight of c. 370-400bhp/t. The other is c.184bhp weighs 509kg and has a decent straight cut box. Theoretically c. 360bhp/t but with an equally well sorted chassis and a better box. Real world performance would I really notice a difference between the two on a track that would warrant an 8k price difference?

what are people's experiences/thoughts?

thanks

I think it all boils down to your track day skills in that the lighter 1.6 in the right hands should give a good account of itself but personally I have been there before thinking this a great car handling fun car but just needs a bit more midrange. I personally like the extra low down torque/power for easy over taking and grunt out of bends where as lighter/less power means maintaining high corner speed for decent laps. Nothing wrong with either, the right one is the one that will keep you smiling  

[Terryathome]

You seem to be basing the car for track and not considering the road use.

Track. Your not going to keep up with the big boys in either of the cars. Indeed depends on what skill level you drive at and how much self preservation you have for you and the car.

Road. I can't comment on the 1.6 but the S2000 that's if you can get hold of one is a pleasure.