Introduction - here to learn about how to get a turbo MX5 powertrain into a Westfield

[Thrustyjust]

Thats been for sale a while ago. I think its probably scared the living bejesus out of anyone on a pax ride. Bring it to Stoneleigh and stick on the WSCC plot. You will be made very welcome. I guess you'll be visiting a few petrol stops on the way !! 

[TAFKARM]

Is that an LS??!?

[Thrustyjust]

14 minutes ago, RussH said:

Is that an LS??!?

Yup..................

[Steve (sdh2903)]

Does the Ls engined car still use the mx5 diff? If so it might well need some reinforcing. They've had issues with the diff mounts/ears breaking on the mx5 cars. If they've shoe horned that beast in I would imagine/hope theyve beefed that area up already.

[Martin#30]

Thanks all, glad I am not cast into the wilderness quite yet. This place seems like a lot of like minded souls, though I imagine the p*** taking will be more about 'you just got your chequebook out and bought one' rather than it not being a Westfield

Yes, 400bhp & 400ft/lb, 6.0 GM LS2 engine and box. It does not make 400bhp right now though, as it is fuelling poorly. A combination of fairly small cats, a tune to get it through IVA emissions, and an OEM ECU that just cannot cope with that much difference to stock I expect. I am thinking I will have to go for aftermarket management, unless I can find some tuning software that reads and writes to the GM ECU.

I think deep down, this much power and torque is overkill in a 7, but I just could not resist. I have been racing motorbikes for a number of years now, and that has spoiled cars a little for me - hoping this will be enough to have me chuckling to myself under acceleration.

@sdh, yes, still using the MX5 diff. I am not yet sure if it has been reinforced, not picking the car up until Tuesday, but I would be surprised if work has not been done given the quality of the rest of the build. Besides, with so little weight over the rear axle, I think it will spin tyres before it breaks the diff/driveshafts (famous last words.....)

Martin.

ps: Hoping to make it to Stoneleigh, hoping to bring the SR2, but at the very least I will come over to the stand and say hi.

ps: A few more pictures for now, just the ones from the advert.

 

[Justin767]

Looks a great car Martin.

I'm thinking of switching to the GM LS engine for my 5L Seight..  Hopefully it would join straight to my current T5 gearbox..

How have you been getting on with yours?  Is the ECU running it nicely now?  Does it work well out on track? (Handle well and keep it's temperatures in check.?.)

[Martin#30]

Hi Justin,

The fuelling is sorted now on mine, though it did take a fair bit of work. I bought EFILive software so I could alter the stock GM maps, but could never find the root cause settings in the original LS2 map that were causing my flat spots. In the end, I burned an LS3 map onto the ECU and tweaked a little to cover the small LS3-2 changes. Flat spots gone, and it feels like it has another 100bhp.

I must say I am absolutely loving the car. It is an absolute weapon. However, by any rational measure, It really is too much engine for the car. It wheelspins in 3rd even in the dry with 10" wide sticky tyres. This is probably good, as it protects the MX5 diff a little.

Overall, I am glad I bought it and would do so again. The only downside, and one I still want to fix, is the on the limit handling. It does not have that sublime Westy/Caterham driftability on the limit - I think because the rear grip is so great, and the torque so strong that it is bites at the limit compared to other 7s. It is still huge fun drifting out of 2nd gear corners, but takes a lot more concentration and it is a bit of a liability in the damp/wet.

I have only done two 15 minute track sessions so far in it, and temperatures were perfect. You get a fair bit of heat transfer into the cockpit when stationary, but the temps are rock solid road or track, regardless of speed. The worst case scenario was coming back into the paddock after a session, and the rad fan took a couple of minutes to get the temps back down initially. My car has just a water rad, no oil coolers anywhere.

Are you anywhere near Wiltshire? You are welcome to take a good look over it, happy to chat on the phone too if you would like. 

Martin

[Justin767]

Thanks for the offer Martin, I'm just down in Hampshire and would love to meet up for a chat and to poke around the car sometime..

We have a fair bit in common petrol-head wise!  I race dirt bikes a bit and do the odd trackday on my race Gixer1000 plus my Westy is pretty highly developed having 375bhp & 415ft/lb, dry sump, T5 box, giant rad, very quick steering etc

I actually find it puts all the power down pretty easily (on track with hot V70 tyres), but you have to respect the throttle a bit and feel for the grip rather than just mash it.!. It's normally pretty neutral and predictable and if you feel like larking around for a camera or passenger it can hold decent slides through hairpins ok :-)

Once I'd booked Snetterton in January and it was indeed soaked and all I had was worn out R888 tyres.. However despite naff all grip it was one of the most enjoyable trackdays I've done.!. I pretty much had the track to myself and was enjoying half hour sessions drifting about (at speeds too slow to hit anything!!) for lap after lap not wanting to come in.!.  I ended up doing over 200 miles there !!

So I'm sure you can make some good progress with your car set-up. Maybe it's just down to your chassis design (geometry, shorter wheelbase? Anti Roll Bars? etc) But I've been pleasantly surprised by the handling since joining the Seight fold (having wrongly anticipated that it would be more of a GT car). They're also very sensitive to the amount of rear toe-in..

So your next set of tyres might help. Maybe try the Avon ZZS in 245/40r15 (or 245/50r13 ?) - they both go on a 10" rim.. The ZZS has the same grippy compound as the much hailed ZZR but a few more groves in the tread. So it should be more progressive on the limit and is also pretty decent in the rain.

As for the hot cockpit - ideas that spring to mind - heat reflective matting on the outside of the footwell, carpet on the inside (wash my mouth out!?), decent wrap on the exhaust manifolds and more vents in the bonnet (mine has 15 !)  Then for the hot engine after a run - I make a point of doing a good long cool down (2 or 3 mins) still carrying the corner speed and reaching decent speed on the straights but only using about half of the torque in 5th and not much braking. Plus I have a dash switch in parallel with the fan switch - so I flick that on as I approach a situation without much airflow - pitting or spotting a traffic jam ahead on the roads.. Might be an idea for yours..

[Martin#30]

Thanks Justin, lots of good stuff there for me to think about. 

Sounds like we need to arrange to do a track day, compare car notes, and talk all things petrolhead for the day. Maybe we can align on a forthcoming WSCC attended day?

Martin. 

[Justin767]

Sounds good. But I had an oil pump failure last week at Donington and coasted into the pits with the engine off.. So the engine rebuild/refresh that I've been intending for a while has now become a necessity.. Unfortunately John Eales is always booked up for months in advance and I don't trust the other outfits to be as competent..

Hence my interest in going the alternative route of installing an LS2 engine and having an install that is designed to run all day at 400 odd bhp rather than a highly modified Rover one that needs engine-out rebuilds from time to time and costs a lot more to replace.!.

Alternatively (and in the context of my interest in building an Ultima Evolution.!.) I might instead go to town on the Westy and fit a revvy little 2.4 V8 from  http://www.synergypower.co.nz/ that would be a lot smaller and lighter and has 405 bhp..

So I'd like to check out on yours whether my RV8 to T5 bellhousing might be made to fit the LS2, how the engine mounts attach and whether my exhaust manifold can be made to fit..

How much does your sump hang below your car?  As I'd fit my dry sump kit and replace the LS2 sump with a oil collection pan and then lower the whole engine as much as possible using some customized engine mounts...

If you spot a trackday that you fancy, my other trackday car is a Global GT1 so I could bring that along..  (Incidentally when choosing that car my alternative idea was the RoadRunner SR1 - but I decided to go for the more track focused/evolved car..)  That plus the V8 Westy make a great and very different trackday car pairing :-)

[Martin#30]

Justin,

in a rather ironic comparison of my supposedly reliable LS2 vs. your highly strung RV8, mine has  ingested all its oil and now also knocks :-) I failed to notice the low oil pressure in time on a drive.

Significant part user error as I should have checked oil level more, but it must have used 3l in 600 miles so was obviously hiding a fundamental issue. 

Anyway, reason for posting is the engine is now down to the block, and I will be taking it out of the car soon. If you (or anyone else) want any measurements/photos of the chassis/sump/bellhousing etc whilst the engine is out, just shout. 

On the plus side, can see no bore scoring or bearing damage yet. Only possible root cause I can see is the previous owner fitted upgraded cam and rockers, and these rockers have been rubbing against the cylinder head. I am surmising a bit of metal has flaked off, and blocked an oil galley somewhere.

Hope you are having better luck with your rebuild.

Martin. 

[Justin767]

Sorry to hear that Martin and I hope you're back up and running soon. 

I've since gathered loads of information (talking to John Eales, Synergy, Mulfab, RoadRunner, Ultima etc) and it turns out that John can rebuild my engine pretty quickly, that the LS Westy install brings up lots of issues without much gain and the Synergy V8.. well they never replied.!. 

Roadrunner can't deliver a kit until next year and there were only a couple of LS versions made.. I'm also concerned that I'd end up having a car that is in fact less fun on track than my Westy !? 

I've priced up building an Ultima and they're about 30% more than I had expected and would cost about double what the secondhand ones bottom out at.. (So maybe I'll modify a built one..)

But my current plan is to restore my RV8 Westy to it's former glory..

[6carjon]

You could always try the AJP option.....