Plumbed fire extinguisher

[Mitchfc]

Hi Guys,

               I've seen a few worrying videos online recently of kit cars on fire and was planning on getting an electric plumbed system fitted in my westfield but after our annual hillclimb/sprint awards lunch today people I was discussing it with fellow competitors who felt it was unnecessary. some opinions were that hillclimbs and sprints are such short runs that you'd be highly unlikely to have a fire and that the extra weight would be another 2 or 3kg which could affect times. I was adamant about getting one but now I'm in two minds. The thing is I will also be using the car on the road and on track days. Probably looking at around £600 for a fitted system which is peanuts if it's saves the car or your life. As I don't have insurance on hillclimb/sprints any loss caused by fire would be at my expense. 

 Interested on opinions and those who have some form of extinguisher. Also if those competing with extinguisher systems think the slight increase in additional weight makes much difference and if the benefit out weights the slight difference in times?

Thanks Mitch 

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

I used to have a plumbed in system and removed it to save weight. Marshals posts are always in close proximity and they have extinguishers

[Terry Everall]

I also took mine out like John. 

[Paul Aspden]

Never had an extinguisher in a competition car that I have owned, but have seen them used in anger at circuit races. I would just say that the only system that was effective at putting out fires contained halon, which is now banned. The foam systems seem rubbish, with little spray, and very very little extinguishing qualities......You could pee the fire out better than the one I saw deployed, and that was on a rolling road so no wind to contend with! I haven't seen the gas type deployed but understand they are better, but who knows. 

It is my understanding that a fire extinguisher system is designed to buy the driver time to escape, not to put out fires...Which is why I have seen halon used to put out fires on Irish rally cars. The stuff may be banned, but in my eyes a burnt out car emits more CFCs than the halon, and you get to repair the damage rather than watch it burn to a crisp.

Hope none of us ever have to contend with a fire, but having said that being prepared is better than not being....

[Mitchfc]

 I'm going to leave it for now I think and hopefully I don't regret it one day but I will be insured on track days and road use and the least likely time the have a fire is probably (hopefully) on a 40 second hillclimb and that will be the only instance where I am not insured and the extra weight may play a factor when competing. I think I've jinxed it sufficiently now from that last sentence anyway  so we'll see? 

As John mentioned Marshall's with extinguishers are never too far away on a hillclimb/sprint also. 

Thanks Mitch

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

You spend more time in the startline queue than on the track

[Mitchfc]

I said to my wife it's so much fuss for something that only last only 40 seconds, she said "now you know how I feel" 

[robhume]

I have had one in my previous cars but only because I go to France, where it is a requirement, and as to how well it would contain a fire......

I inadvertently set mine off, which was a 2.5kg one and recently filled, I was very disappointed with the result, I could have p.... more.

So unless you are very concerned, I would not bother.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Yeah, I bought a second hand system, thinking I'd get it re-charged and build it in. (Purely for road use).

As it needed charging anyway, I thought I'd try it before fitting it. Needless to say, after seeing just what it did, the bottle has sat in the garage as a back up fire extinguisher for the last three or four years.

Just like someone pointed out earlier, you have to remember what these simple systems are intended to do, and it's not put out fires. (Though one might manage a really small fire, caught early enough). All they're designed for is to buy enough time for someone already dressed in flame proof overalls, to get out of a quick release harness and climb out of the car, without getting badly hurt by the fire. They fill that gap in time before the track martials can get to you, carrying proper full sized extinguishers, which are what actually put the fire out, unless it's huge and needs even more back up.

Dont forget, a fixed system is exactly that, fixed, so won't necessarily be aimed at the right spot either. I do carry a small hand held bottle - on the basis that I quite often travel in groups, and there are often several of us with hand helds, and it's not unknown for someone in large groups to have problems. There might just be enough of us to do something about it.

[maurici]

I have a plumbed in FIA extinguisher to fill the engine bay if needed... and I wont be going on track without it. Yes, it weights 12kg... not an issue. I weight over 100, and not because of that I drive the car remotely. I think is basic of any track car.

[John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison]

3 minutes ago, maurici said:

I have a plumbed in FIA extinguisher to fill the engine bay if needed... and I wont be going on track without it. Yes, it weights 12kg... not an issue. I weight over 100, and not because of that I drive the car remotely. I think is basic of any track car.

Great. Is it in date and how many litres of fuel does your car hold?

 

[maurici]

Is in date. yes. Bought last year, and periodically checked to see if its in pressure.

In track or sprint the car hold very little fuel. on road... a full STD tank.

3 nozzles pointing Injector rail, injector pressure and sump area pointing upwards. I'm only concerned about this area. If the rear of the car starts in fire, with the tank there, will be useles. If a drop of fuel ignites in the rail area or a rod goes off with oil going in the exhaust manifold, will likely sufocate it easily. 

Is my peace of mind... A similar setup saved my old Rally R5 turbo... so since then I can't justify not to have it.

 

[Mitchfc]

 Some very interesting points made. I have heard that if you have a hand held fire extinguisher it's hard to access the the engine bay if that is where the fire is and opening the bonnet will not only be extremely difficult with the heat but also would only make the situation worse with the introduction of more oxygen. My Westfield has Carbon flared sides so hopefully easy access for handheld extinguishers? 

[Paul Aspden]

On 28/02/2017 at 09:36, maurici said:

Is in date. yes. Bought last year, and periodically checked to see if its in pressure.

In track or sprint the car hold very little fuel. on road... a full STD tank.

3 nozzles pointing Injector rail, injector pressure and sump area pointing upwards. I'm only concerned about this area. If the rear of the car starts in fire, with the tank there, will be useles. If a drop of fuel ignites in the rail area or a rod goes off with oil going in the exhaust manifold, will likely sufocate it easily. 

Is my peace of mind... A similar setup saved my old Rally R5 turbo... so since then I can't justify not to have it.

 

Don't expect your plumbed in system to have any effect, trust me, they are rubbish at putting fires out!

 

[Lawrie]

14 minutes ago, Paul Aspden said:

Don't expect your plumbed in system to have any effect, trust me, they are rubbish at putting fires out!

 

They are a requirement in rally cars, but the rally boys seem to have accepted that they don't work.  Once BCF was banned, the replacement, fine foam just blows away.  Some types are better than others.