Zetec - Weber 45 dcoe. Oops wrong carbs!

[shrops-paul]

That's the nub of it. Finding somewhere to fit the kit and set it up on a rolling road.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

That's the nub of it. Finding somewhere to fit the kit and set it up on a rolling road.

Aye, but many just don't underestimate what's involved - it's why you'll get what sound like high quotes for this sort of job; converting to injection is straightforward enough - it's a task many have undertaken, after all. It's just that in our joy at getting it working, we forget just how much there was to do. And in typical Haynes manual style, how much easier it sounded on paper, or on the Boardroom, than it did in practice!

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

As a rough guide, for a generic engine/FI system, starting from the back you have to:

Either swap to an injection tank, or have an existing one modified. Of course in reality this means removing the boot box, M possibly removing roll bar, then much cursing as you work through a small opening in the back of the car! Is there an anti roll bar in the way?

Swap fuel pump for an injection pump.

Add a return fuel line from the engine bay to the tank.

Find a location for your new ecu. Wire in its loom, adopting existing connections to fuel pump, when you've found them in the fuse box, extending if necessary.run sensor connections around engine bay to appropriate spots for the new sensors required by injection system. Work out how rev counter has previously been wired in and rewire it into the new ecu loom.

All this wiring may, in the worst case, require removing the scuttle, if the ecu is to be located in the dry, interior of the car.

Does your existing engine have a usable trigger wheel? If not a means of attaching a trigger wheel and crank sensor must be engineered.

Remove existing ignition components, fuel pressure regulator and carbs.

Fit new throttle bodies. Note, if you have a "wet manifold", (ie, water from the cooling system flows through it, or part of it), then you'll also need to part drain, then refil and bleed the cooling system.

Fit the ecu's water temperature sender. This may require a hole drilling and tapping somewhere suitable, or and adaptor fitting plumbing into a hose. Wire in to ecu loom.

If it doesn't come fitted, fit TPS to throttle bodies, fit fuel rail, injectors and injection fuel pressure regulator, plumb in to the send and return lines. Fit air temp sender and connect to ecu loom. Fit air filter.

Reconnect, or often replace throttle cable, fit new linkage if required.

Hopefully no inlet manifold studs snapped, nuts got rounded or whatever during this, but it happens!

But with the mechanical, electrical and fuel side installed, everything can now be checked and powered up, before installing the base map and testing. That all the sensors are working correctly.

Initial TPS and butterfly settings on the ITB will vary, but must now be done, prior to the first start.

After a rough first start, and leak check, it is typical, with the engine running temporal at a rough fast idle to balance the individual butterfly's, so that each barrel is drawing the same amount of air. Depending how good the base map is, the engine should now be able to idle at normal speed. (Or slightly fast if the map is only approximate).

After another check for leaks, and to make sure that everything was working properly, it's on to mapping....

[shrops-paul]

Ha ha

Mines ok. It's just upgradius. I treat it as character of a 15 year old car. I'll probably just take it to Troy to tune up as is.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Sorry, Paul, I realised it wasn't you, but just reread my post and it does sound like I meant you! Oops.

[noggin]

As a rough guide, for a generic engine/FI system, starting from the back you have to:

Either swap to an injection tank, or have an existing one modified. Of course in reality this means removing the boot box, M possibly removing roll bar, then much cursing as you work through a small opening in the back of the car! Is there an anti roll bar in the way?

Swap fuel pump for an injection pump.

Add a return fuel line from the engine bay to the tank.

Find a location for your new ecu. Wire in its loom, adopting existing connections to fuel pump, when you've found them in the fuse box, extending if necessary.run sensor connections around engine bay to appropriate spots for the new sensors required by injection system. Work out how rev counter has previously been wired in and rewire it into the new ecu loom.

All this wiring may, in the worst case, require removing the scuttle, if the ecu is to be located in the dry, interior of the car.

Does your existing engine have a usable trigger wheel? If not a means of attaching a trigger wheel and crank sensor must be engineered.

Remove existing ignition components, fuel pressure regulator and carbs.

Fit new throttle bodies. Note, if you have a "wet manifold", (ie, water from the cooling system flows through it, or part of it), then you'll also need to part drain, then refil and bleed the cooling system.

Fit the ecu's water temperature sender. This may require a hole drilling and tapping somewhere suitable, or and adaptor fitting plumbing into a hose. Wire in to ecu loom.

If it doesn't come fitted, fit TPS to throttle bodies, fit fuel rail, injectors and injection fuel pressure regulator, plumb in to the send and return lines. Fit air temp sender and connect to ecu loom. Fit air filter.

Reconnect, or often replace throttle cable, fit new linkage if required.

Hopefully no inlet manifold studs snapped, nuts got rounded or whatever during this, but it happens!

But with the mechanical, electrical and fuel side installed, everything can now be checked and powered up, before installing the base map and testing. That all the sensors are working correctly.

Initial TPS and butterfly settings on the ITB will vary, but must now be done, prior to the first start.

After a rough first start, and leak check, it is typical, with the engine running temporal at a rough fast idle to balance the individual butterfly's, so that each barrel is drawing the same amount of air. Depending how good the base map is, the engine should now be able to idle at normal speed. (Or slightly fast if the map is only approximate).

After another check for leaks, and to make sure that everything was working properly, it's on to mapping....

 

Phew! That's sounds like a right faff about. Thank god I didn't decide to try and do it myself.

 

Do all systems need an injection pump, a tank and return line?.. or is this for more modern engines. Forgive my ignorance, I'm a complete novice.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

The sort of fuel injection fitted as an upgrade on Westfields runs at much higher pressure than a carb pump can deliver. Typically 3, 3.5 or 4 bar are all common. There are more complex ways of plumbing the system up, but basically, yes, a return is required on many aftermarket set ups, though some bike fuel pumps to go with bike throttle bodies may not need one.

As I say, it's not that any of the steps are really technically difficult, it's just there are more steps than sometimes realised, and the key thing, on a retro fit, you never know what might come along and complicate things - stuck bolts, things in the way, needing either temporarily, or permanently moving before something else can be fitted.

[blue ass fly]

Is there that much of a difference between Webers and bike carbs?

And as noggin said what exactly would be needed to change from Webers to bike carbs in parts etc?

Webers are a fixed choke design designed for racing

So if you have 36mm chokes - you have a 36mm

'hole' for the air to pass through

Great for maximum throttle , but what about the rest of the time - its a compromise

You dont need a 36mm hole for idle or part throttle

Bike carbs are variable choke,like a SU carb

Theres a flat slide inside that is lifted as more air travels through

So the 'hole'is only as big as it needs to be

Is barely open at idle and opens fully when you gun it - far more efficient

Theyre also much simpler, stay in tune , and dont leak and make the garage stink

It will start better,idle smoother and generally feel nicer to drive

You would need carbs prom a bike with tps fitted - typicaly 600cc and above for a zetec

If its a standard ish engine dont get dragged into huge superbike carbs - 36-38mm is fine

Manifold - available from boggs or danst - or buy a kit and put it together yourself as i did

Ideally use a bike fuel pump as they are very low pressure but high flow - and switch off when at pressure - its a straight swapover for the existing one so dead easy

Air filter - if your using a foam sausage one just buy a new back plate

You will recoup your outlay with the sale of the webers

[WINGNUT]

Cheers blue ass fly, does make sense but the swop over alone if it cures the hesitation you get through lack of progression holes is well worth it