Zetec - Weber 45 dcoe. Oops wrong carbs!

[noggin]

I've had my Westfield for about three months now and all through that time I had issues with lumpy running, multiple flat spots, spluttering under acceleration and lack of power. It will drive OK if I take it easy and coax it along but it really isn't right.

 

I'd have issues with over-cooling and I suspected that had an effect on the running. I've had that sorted out now and it gets up to the right temps and runs a bit better.

I booked it in to RPL Carb and Injection Centre In Leicester last week and they had a go at setting it up as best they could. They were honest and said they didn't have a rolling road and all they could do was to try and optimise the set-up I had. When the car came back it was running better, particularly at low speed, but it now idles at 1200 rpm.

 

Yesterday I took a drive down to Northampton Motorsports to chat with them about it. I talked to Steve who suspected that my car might not have the right carbs fitted. Apparently there is a difference in the Webers needed for a Zetec engine. Steve got me to check some of the jets and it seems I have the wrong carbs fitted. He's told me that it's virtually impossible to ever get them working right and it'll always stutter and fart!

 I had already considered a swap over to an engine management system and throttle bodies so it looks like I'll have to go ahead and do the upgrade. I'm waiting for an estimate from Steve and the car is booked in for mid-July.

 

I realise I've been impulsive when buying my Westfield and I just went for the one I liked the look of. I knew I wanted a Zetec but I was unaware of the need to check the right carbs were fitted. There's a lesson there.... don't just buy the prettiest one!! I won't swap cars now I've bought it and I'll just try and enjoy sorting it all out.

[tisme]

Apparently the Zetec needs dcoe's with 5 progression holes (standard carbs have 3) - the progression holes supply fuel at the stage between the idle jets and the main jet taking over. The holes are actually in the main casting so unless you feel brave, adding another two could be errr....interesting.

 

Some good general info about Webers here http://www.tr3a.info/WeberDCOEinfo.htm

 

And the 5 hole type here http://www.webcon.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=15161

 

If you can't live with it or get a compromise tune, I'd go for a manifold from DanST and either bike carbs (so no need to get an ecu) or bike throttle bodies from the GSXR for example but then of course you'll need a new ecu and fuel delivery system ....

 

As for buying a Westy - I suspect many of us have bought one and discovered a number of "interesting" things that the previous owner has done (knowingly or otherwise  ) 

 

Been there, fixed them all now (only taken 14 years ).

 

 

[noggin]

 My carbs only had three holes and I was unaware of any difference in the Webers. From my chat with Northampton Motorsports it looks like an Omex 600 and Jenvey throttle bodies will be the way to go. I'm still to hear back from them.

 

I have very little mechanical apptitude and even less desire to mess with spanners. Usually I'll leave that to the 'experts' and use my expertise to earn the money to pay for it. 

 

Bike carbs are an option but again I would need someone to do it for me. I own a GSXR but the carbs are staying put!

 

I hope it doesn't take me 14 years to sort things out! The previous owner/builder of the car owned it for 17 years and I find it hard to believe he would have run it like this for so long. Maybe that's why he only did 3500 miles in all that time! I want to drive it and drive it fast - everywhere!

[Kevin (Mr T)]

Referring to the OP, I had exactly the same experience. Bought my xflow engined Westy with 40s and always had rough idle. Finally, a visit to a Weber specialist identified the carbs as Alfa Romeo 40s, which have much larger progression holes than the 151s that suit the engine.

Two rolling road sessions and a brand new pair of carbs certainly hurt the bank account.

It can be a minefield!

[Stu Faulkner]

I had the wrong webers on my Zetec and Troy at NMS drilled extra progressive holes and it ran pretty good.

Without the holes it will cough on light pick up and sometimes every time you touch the throttle.

[Geoffrey Carter (Buttercup)]

I sold my webbers for the same price it cost for bike carbs and the rolling road set up and manifold etc.

 

Have a word with Bogg Brothers in East Lutton.

 

They are wizards with webber and bike carbs.

 

Ask for Steve.

[Kingster]

I can recommend the DanST set up, mine uses gsxr1000 throttle bodies and is brilliant. The manifold is matched beautifully to the bodies and the head. Puts out 185bhp, so can't see the point spending twice as much on omex or jenveys to be honest.

[noggin]

I'll have a look into bike carbs. Do they bolt on as direct replacement for the webers? I understand I'll need a manifold -are there any other parts needed? 

[shrops-paul]

My zetec is on 45's and can splutter under light throttle, mainly if you are in a higher gear in a 30 or 40 limit. Giving it the beans and it's ok. I spoke to the guys at Northampton and the conversion to proper fuel injection etc would cost almost 3k including fitting and setup etc. Yikes!

The DanST option looks a lot better. I tend to be able to drive round the problem by being more thoughtful with gear choice and just treat it as 'character'. My MT75 box dosent help as the gears can be quite different when you're used to a normal road car.

Bonus season at work is coming so maybe it's time for DanST

[noggin]

My zetec is on 45's and can splutter under light throttle, mainly if you are in a higher gear in a 30 or 40 limit. Giving it the beans and it's ok. I spoke to the guys at Northampton and the conversion to proper fuel injection etc would cost almost 3k including fitting and setup etc. Yikes!

The DanST option looks a lot better. I tend to be able to drive round the problem by being more thoughtful with gear choice and just treat it as 'character'. My MT75 box dosent help as the gears can be quite different when you're used to a normal road car.

Bonus season at work is coming so maybe it's time for DanST

The quote I got exceeded £3500 including the VAT !! 

[blue ass fly]

+ 1 for bike carbs

Going injection involves tank,fuel pump and pipes aswell as ecu and bodies

Bike carbs on a bog or danst manifold will be night and day to your webers

As said above , youll recoup most of the cost with the sale of your webers and manifold

[WINGNUT]

Is there that much of a difference between Webers and bike carbs?

And as noggin said what exactly would be needed to change from Webers to bike carbs in parts etc?

[noggin]

Further investigations reveal a bike throttle body set-up from DanST for about a grand. Thats with all the wiring, manifold, throttle linkages and an ecu with base map to get it running. My neighbour has offered to fit it all for me. He has a Mk1 Fiesta with a 2.0 Zetec Turbo he's built himself and has loads of experience with Zetec engines. This is the main reason I bought a car with a Zetec, so I could pop across the road if I had any problems. He won't charge me much (compared to NMS) and then I'll just need to have it set up.

I may ask NMS to do that for me but I'm not sure how forthcoming they may be after I cancel the order for their kit.

My neighbour recommended Chester Motorsport which is a bit far for me to drive but I could have it transported to them. I'd seen a good write up on here about some guys in Nottingham so they could be an option and they're much closer.

 

All in all the above option is half the price I'd been quoted.

[tisme]

I think there are a few ecu mapping places in Leicestershire but don't know if they just stick to tin tops. I have come across Noble Motorsport in the past (Chesterfield) who have a good reputation  http://www.noblemotorservices.co.uk/

 

 

I had the wrong webers on my Zetec and Troy at NMS drilled extra progressive holes and it ran pretty good.
Without the holes it will cough on light pick up and sometimes every time you touch the throttle.

 

Finkangel - did that cost much? I've read that just about every 16v engine should have at least 4 progression holes and I'm thinking that could explain why my C20XE splutters so much at that opening point unless I floor it !  Apparently what we need is the DCOE 152G but I suspect we've all got the standard 152's.

 

I'm also liking the sound of a DanST setup with GSXR TB's so may do some secret planning for another winter upgrade 

 

[noggin]

@tisme. Thanks for the heads-up, I'll check them out. 

 

After a discussion with my friend who's going to fit the kit, we've chosen to go with the DanST  42mm GSXR1000 'Competition' Throttle Body Kit. This kit has an Omex ecu and a better wiring loom. I ordered today and I'll have to wait three weeks for delivery.