woodman Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Anything without the Msa is a way forward 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Worthy of further investigation perhaps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKARM Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 im up for it too James Im trying to send you a PM about something unrelated but says you can't accept messages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yes we have discussed the use of transducers with some of the timekeepers and they say its all down to the MSA etc I'm not so sure about that, the format of sprint just outlined is fine for transponders as it's a true flying lap. But these things are not that accurate, what you say !! What I mean is my understanding is that they have a distance range of a few cm's as the car goes over the line, but they are repeatable, so the same car sets the timing off in the same position each lap. Bearing that in mind, the finish is no problem as you will be at speed, but the start from standstill is more of a problem, unless we make a change and start the cars behind the transponder line, assuming of course that it's a normal sprint / hillclimb. Also double drives needs thinking about. And of course bear in mind that they way this would end up having to be done is with competitors buying transponders. Hiring may work, but it's still extra cost. And as loads of you have said, not more spend !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Everall Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Good points Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Yes if that is the case the start would certainly need thinking about. I'm sure (hope?) that this has already been/being considered. In terms of cost, how much is a transponder unit? One of my biggest frustrations with sprints and hillclimbs has been the wide variance in quality of timing at each event, from places like Loton with 64ft times, several splits and a great print out, to three sisters or anglesey where there's nothing but an overall time. Based on that, I'd personally be more than happy to either pay a little more for the licence to get consistent, modern timing or to actually buy the relevant transponder unit and fit to the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 In terms of cost, how much is a transponder unit?Race ones are approximately 3x the cost of one sprint entry (yes, over £300!), but I'm sure kart ones would work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Hmm £300 would be a big ask for newbies, but I guess once the investment is made you don't need to buy again, and maybe the club could come up with some loan solution for those that just want to give it a try, like we do with helmets/overalls etc? This definitely needs some more thought, but it would be a great step forward for the sport to have a unilateral timing solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1959grantura Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I am a bit confused I thought any timing to be involved means it's classed as competition which means it needs to be run under MSA regs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.RAD Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 I don't know the technicalities but no, that's not true. For example, the Javelin sprint series runs timed competition outside MSA regs. Time Attack always used to be outside of MSA but is now included. I think it may be an insurance thing and you're confusing with track days where no timing is allowed for insurance reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I am a bit confused I thought any timing to be involved means it's classed as competition which means it needs to be run under MSA regs? The MSA is the biggest governing body in the UK for motorsport, but there are others. Yes, it is to some extent an insurance thing, but there is a lot more to it as well. Just read the MSA Blue Book to realise that there is a lot to consider when competing. A massive amount of experience and work has gone into that over many years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkm_dave Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Bearing that in mind, the finish is no problem as you will be at speed, but the start from standstill is more of a problem, unless we make a change and start the cars behind the transponder line, assuming of course that it's a normal sprint / hillclimb. Also double drives needs thinking about. Could we put them on the back of the car instead of the front? So the transponder has a car length 'run-up' before timing starts. I'd have thought kart ones would be accurate enough, but are they triggered by a wire in the track? So for most venues it may be a case of taping a wire accross the track to trigger the timing start/stop, and with most competitors getting at least a bit of wheel spin off the line I doubt the wire will stay put for long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Algar - Competition Secretary Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 I think the problem with the Kart ones is that they have to be closer to the ground that the car ones. Car placement is another issue as obviously you want it as far back as possible to be doing max speed over the line. Gains you a few mill seconds advantage!! There is quiet a bit to it,but I am no expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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