Jump to content

Starting gremlin - part deux


Quinten

Recommended Posts

Had my first 'scare' today.  Went to work in the westie, and when I returned 8 hours later, it would not start!  A fuse which I installed on the starter (I know, i know, don't worry, it's gone now!) had blown for the 2nd time and after I replaced it with a slightly higher amped version, I pressed the starter with great expectation...  except it still wouldn't start!

 

Now my starter has always been noisy.  Whenever you turned the key it would make a high screeching noise but it never failed to start.  Except for today (and probably last week too, but I put it down to the fuse blowing at the time).  But today it clicked, then it didn't click, and then it turned over once, and then it started again.

 

Later when I got home I removed the fuse from the equation but the starter exhibited the same behaviour as earlier, so I suspect it is on the way out...  or is it?  What are people experiences with starters?  Are they serviceable, or cheap enough to chuck and replace?  Not knowing how old it is, I'm going to assume this is the original starter from when the car was assembled in 1998.

 

If it's a non-servicable item, is there such a thing as a more powerful starter?  Always of the opinion that replacing a broken item with a better item is a good investment, but not sure if that applies to these... ;)

 

Sorry for the long story  :yes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you mess with the starter I suggest you check the battery and see if it has high enough voltage to turn the starter correctly.

Needs to be about 12.7v min

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen High Torque starters on both WF online shop

http://parts-shop.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=835

 

And Burton Power

http://www.burtonpower.com/edge-gear-reduction-starter-ford-cvh-zetec-e-1-4kw-cf007.html

 

There's an Autoelectric company not far from where I work and they recon both starters and alternators and have been doing so for more than 20 years so yes they can and often do get overhauled. Out starters at work get done there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before you mess with the starter I suggest you check the battery and see if it has high enough voltage to turn the starter correctly.

Needs to be about 12.7v min

I'll put the V meter on tomorrow and check  :yes:   Best to eliminate that, as not too long ago I thought the battery was flat too...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen High Torque starters on both WF online shop

http://parts-shop.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=835

 

And Burton Power

http://www.burtonpower.com/edge-gear-reduction-starter-ford-cvh-zetec-e-1-4kw-cf007.html

 

There's an Autoelectric company not far from where I work and they recon both starters and alternators and have been doing so for more than 20 years so yes they can and often do get overhauled. Out starters at work get done there.

 

I've got a Crossflow though, but have seen 3 on Burtons website...  not looking forward to those prices though  :down:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also sounds like a solenoid fault- they are easily replaceable. Easy to test by bridging the terminals with a big screwdriver ( if you don't mind the sparks!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also sounds like a solenoid fault- they are easily replaceable. Easy to test by bridging the terminals with a big screwdriver ( if you don't mind the sparks!)

Not keen on sparks, but where would I find these terminals? From memory I have two large/thick cables (could also be one to the starter, then another to alternator) to the starter and a single thinner 'ignition' wire... or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depends if you have a pre-engaged or Bendix starter. I guess on a x-flow its probably Bendix, so the solenoid is just a relay in the feed to the starter. That would be easy to check as you can bridge the high current posts, also check the contacts are clean and even measure voltage drop across it when you try to crank...

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've got a Crossflow though, but have seen 3 on Burtons website...  not looking forward to those prices though  :down:

 

Ahh sorry my mistake, I read your car details wrong. :getmecoat:

 

All good advice however from the guys above :yes:

 

X Flow Hi Torque starter

http://www.motorsport-tools.com/powerlite-ford-crossflow-kent-x-flow-high-torque-starter-motor.html

 

http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/ignition-electrical-instrumentation/starter-motors/edge-gear-reduction-starter-x-flow-lotus-twin-cam-bda-cf003-9x1-4kw.html

 

Not cheap :oops:

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think you NEED a high torque starter. If the orignal has lasted almost 20 years, just replace like for like...

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to add, don't put too much faith in battery voltage. I replaced mine relatively recently, the old one measured 12.8v after being left over night and struggled to start the car.

 

The new one reads 12.8v after being left over night and has no issue starting the car at all.

 

In fact the old one has been off the car for over 6 months and still measures 12.6v, even my C-Tek battery charger thinks it's perfectly ok, BUT take the vent caps off and the plates are distorted to hell and covered in crap, with gunk floating around in each cell.

 

I would say on a Westfield, if the battery is 4+ years old and struggling, then it's probably no good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You'll find plenty of reconditioners around, just look up in the phone directory, will come under 'Car Electrical'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To check if the battery is "man enough" get a good battery and using jump leads connected to your existing battery see what happens when you try to start it. If it starts either your battery is goosed or not man enough but that also depends on the alternator charging at around 14v when running

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Took the starter off today to confirm how many teeth it has and to note the model number and noticed a lot of oil/grease (well, it *is* an old crossflow after all?!?) between the starter and bell-housing so I cleaned it up and am now wondering if it suffered from bad earthing? Could that be it? There is no separate earth wire on the starter, although one of the terminals is empty (a smaller round terminal)

2015-06-06+15_29_09.jpg

2015-06-07+12_49_10.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool, a pre-engaged starter.

 

The starter earths through the mounting to the bell housing as you noted, so the engine earth strap is important for good starting.

 

The first part of the solenoid movement throws the pinion into the ring, the final part bridges the main 12V motor feed.

 

So you need to look at:

 

1) voltage at the red/white solenoid feed wire

2) voltage at the M8 terminal attached directly to the motor.

 

To test the motor independently of the solenoid, you can stick a screwdriver across the two large terminals (the sparking test!). This shows if the motor spins when the solenoid is bypassed. Make sure you're in neutral!

 

The armature in the solenoid corrodes and can stick, also the terminals erode inside the solenoid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please review our Terms of Use, Guidelines and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.