Don't start that Westfield

[Kezman]

I'd like to think I make good use of the search function on here....and the message regarding not starting a winter laid up Westy or if you do, go for a 'proper run' is definitely received.

But.....I'm still not sure it's totally understood. Something about the combustion process can produce an acid, which a good run burns off.....? I can understand why a stationary idle for 10/15 mins doesn't cut it, but is a decent half hour to running temp with plenty of throttle off idle, 3k plus on the revs and all the rest, not a reasonable attempt to replicate a moving car? Just in the context of the engine and not to the point of over heating due to no air flow.

[Stuart]

Why do you want to start it?

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

Have you ever noticed how hard it is to get the OIL up to working temperature? Some engines just won't really do it at all, except under load. For instance my old XE car needed the equivalent of ten/twenty minutes on the motorway to get the oil to eighty-five degrees C.

 

Its the oil that reacts with combustion gasses to form nasty acid compounds, that then coat the bearing surfaces, which over time and repetition, can eventually get pitted.

 

Stationary heat on the drive isn't so hot either, lack of cooling air flow in the engine bay means a lovely lot atmosphere, perfect for triggering condensation on cold metal chassis members and panelling.

 

If fuel injected, you've also got fuel, nicely warmed as it passes through the toasty engine bay and fuel rail, returning to the tank, which is still nice and cold, just ready for condensation to form inside.

[Kezman]

Stuart.... I suppose a 'rookies' inclination like myself is to give a laid up car a run every now again to keep things moving, but it's explainations like Dave's that teach me that it's best not to. Cheers for that Dave.

Trouble is, because I take every opportunity to (ahem) be shrewd with money..........ok tight! 1st sign of bad weather...."right winters set in" and I sorn the vehicle. I have to work in bad weather, for me, I don't want to spend my leisure time in bad weather too. Then we get truly great days in Winter where I would 1. Genuinely be enjoying a drive and not just pretending to enjoy it and 2. The car itself gets a nice run.

But of course I've not got the option because it's Sorn. I think the trick I've got to learn is to all year round Tax. I only got £70 ish back from road tax rebate. I think I'm learning it's probably best to let them have it, then I have options.

[Kit Car Electronics]

The years that I have SORNed I have regretted. Normally Spring arrives faster than expected, plus I'm sometimes too lazy to renew the MOT if the car is not taxed, so now I prefer to just keep it taxed year round...

[Martyn Vann - Warwickshire AO]

Have you ever noticed how hard it is to get the OIL up to working temperature? Some engines just won't really do it at all, except under load. For instance my old XE car needed the equivalent of ten/twenty minutes on the motorway to get the oil to eighty-five degrees C.

 

 

 

Just as an example, running a standard 1.8 or 2 litre Duratec stationary to get the engine oil up to the minimum 80 degrees celsius to carry out a full cat emissions test for an MOT can take a lot of running at 4000 rpm plus. If left to idle the oil generally only hits about 50 degrees celsius so it is always easier to drive the car for 10 minutes to get the temperature right.

 

Also, it is never very good to run an engine without load for very long as it can also lead to bore glaze problems!

 

Addition of an oil cooler and high quality oils only exacerbates these possible problems.

[Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman]

So true. I must admit, I sort of stopped listing potential issues that could be caused and cut the post short, when it felt like too much for one posting, and seemed like I was having a go!

 

No load is the big problem with trying to do stationary engine stuff though.

 

There are times when it has to be done - bedding new cams or cam train components in, for example, requires you to run the engine with the car stationary, (and follow a strictly set procedure). It can also be helpful when filling and bleeding a cooling system. But as a regular thing, no. Best keep it to the bare minimum needed.

[Meakin]

I'm still not convinced as there are other components to consider which benefit from running.

Alternators, water pumps, pulleys should be rotated for bearings. Certainly belts are best flexed rather than left in one position. Water flow will mix it up again to ensure that nothing is wrong there. Water pipes also benefit from heat cycling. Starter motor and batteries benefit from bring used. Moving the car under clutch up and down the drive etc stops clutches fusing or damaging the surface, brakes surfaces similar. Finally when it comes to starting after a break it takes a lot less effort and wear and tear when the car is cold.

I appreciate that a 5 min start up will create condensation and other nasties but i feel a good fire up going through rev range and moving the car under its own steam just ensures everything is ok for 30 mins or so would actually be more of a benefit than a no no.

Paul

[Arm]

Nitric acid is formed during the combustion process and that attacks the bore walls and machined parts. Getting the engine to temperature burns off these chemicals.

 

Taking the comment about the water pump and other seals as valid (considering adverse effect if they stand for long periods) its balancing that against internal acid damage to the bore etc.

 

We store a lot of expensive cars and some have preservative oils added. Failing that an oil change if only a short run. But ideally I dont run at all (and occasionally change some seals - which were anticipated anyway)