New owner intro and help needed!

[cliver44]

Hi,

I have just bought my first westy. I didn't want to spend too much to start with. I thought I would get in at the entry level and see how much I liked it. So i ended up with a 1995 SEIW with a 2.0 pinto and single downdraught carb. So I have scope to tinker and upgrade a bit, which is part of the fun. I'm not thinking upgrade as far as an engine swap because I figure if I remain addicted as much as I am now, then It might make sense to sell and upgrade in the future.

 

So on to my problem.........

 

I must confess I forgot to check the oil level when I bought the car. A bit dumb, but too late to dwell on it now.

I drove the car 115 miles home and have done maybe another 30 since getting it home a couple of days ago.

I was checking things over and checked the oil level and was horrified to not even see a reading on the dipstick, let alone be on minimum. I thought the oil pressure gauge was not working, but it was obviously down to no oil. The car is fitted with an oil cooler, which I guess is going to hold oil. Does this impact the oil dipstick level?

The car sounds as quiet a mouse with no knocks or noises. I bought some oil have have put about 1.5 litres in. Oil pressure is right up now and oil level is on the minimum mark I think. Can anyone advise where the min and max level is on the dipstick? Will the oil cooler have helped with maybe more oil the car than I thought. If I have put oil in then was this correct or should I have not done this with the fitted oil cooler? I dont want to overfill it!

I'm not sure what damage has or has not been done. Hopefully I wont be rebuilding it sooner that I thought!

 

Clive

[Andy Banks]

 

If it runs smooth now that you have topped up the oil, you "could" be safe. Sometimes (I don't know the Pinto) the dip stick is cut so there may not be any marks on it, if there is just one, it's likely to be the MAX marker. I would assume that the oil cooler will have a bit of oil in it but also assume the dip stick should still read correct and not recalculated due to the cooler.

 

Others will be along soon with a more experienced view...

[Terry Everall]

If the engine sounds quiet and has no tappet or big end noise you may be lucky and get away with it.

Hopefully someone else will inform you about the oil level with oil cooler but in general its better to have too much that too little oil. The Pinto also blows oil through the filler cap or crankcase breather so keep an eye on levels when you give it some welly

[Murraymint]

Sounds like you have got away with it….as others say the Pinto does use oil and I check mine all the time…I have a couple of marks on the dip stick, but think this has been shortened…I would say a 1.5 would be enough for a start, if you put in too much it will start blowing out the dipstick tube etc...

[XTR2Turbo]

Depending upon the sump fitted the dip stick may not mean much.

 

Best would be to drain all the oil immediately and see how much comes out.  I would be worried if less than 4 litres.

 

You will also see if any metal bits in the oil that would suggest a problem.

 

If you do find bits then hopefully caught in time and you can get away with just mains.

 

David

[cliver44]

Thanks all for taking time to reply. 

So regardless of oil cooler, the best thing to do is drain all of the oil out. Change oil filter and refill with 4.5lt, or do I need more to allow fo rth eoil cooler?

[Terry Everall]

The oil capacity will be more with an oil cooler fitted but the Pinto does not really need one IMHO

When you drain the oil look for small specs (like chilli flakes) in the bottom of whatever you collect the oil in. Also if the oil has a bronze sheen on the surface then thats bad. In either case you will have run the main bearings but if your oil pressure is ok then you may have got away with it.

[SootySport]

Thanks all for taking time to reply. 

So regardless of oil cooler, the best thing to do is drain all of the oil out. Change oil filter and refill with 4.5lt, or do I need more to allow fo rth eoil cooler?

As above, drain and measure the old oiI . Suggest you use Google to search for the Pinto capacity, has to be mentioned somewhere.    2.0L Pintos were in Mk 3 & Mk4 Cortinas and Capri Mk2.    Then add 1/2 to 3/4 litre extra oil to allow for the oil cooler.  20/50 is the correct grade.

[tisme]

When you say you thought the oil pressure gauge was not working - does that mean it wasn't showing anything at all at any time ?

 

Often when oil levels are low, you will see erratic readings - either because there will be more oil in the sump after it's been standing for a while or lower levels at the oil pickup due to surge. If no reading at all from cold then the oil must have been almost non existent and the likelihood of damage will depend on how fast the engine was revved, what the temperatures where like and what type of oil (and how new) was in there (assuming any at all  ).

 

Older engines do appear to be slightly more robust and resilient to "neglect" (no offence intended) as the tolerances are bigger than modern engines and therefore any oil layer subsequently thicker (and more of it).

 

I agree you may have been fortunate but only time will tell - especially when the engine is hot and after a good run - you my find that the piston bores and rings could have been scored or dried out so that you may see puffs of oil smoke on overruns etc. Big end and main bearings may have been scored as well and although hopefully not enough to produce any obvious "knocking" again, you may find when the engine / oil is really hot that the oil pressure won't be so great.

 

I think the thing to do is change the oil and filter - a lot of people appear to use a good quality semi synthetic 20w/50. As others have said, have a look in the drained oil for glints of "silver dust" (basically worn metal) - there will always be some but too much, or anything bigger than "dust" may indicate something more serious.

 

I think the standard pinto engine had an oil capacity of  3.75 litres - the oil cooler amount will depend on how many rows - useful info from Mocal here http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/mocal-oil-coolers-2-c.asp

 

The other things I'd check on an unknown engine such as a pinto would be the cam belt - if you don't know when it was last changed - then change it (real mess if it breaks) and also the cam oil spray bar (in the rocker cover) has been known to break up or block, so worth changing at the same time.

 

Otherwise a nice solid engine - tuning bits readily available and some useful info (and bits) from Burtons http://www.burtonpower.com/tuning-guides/tuning-guide-pages/ford-sohc-pinto-tuning-guide.html

 

Hopefully the engine will be fine until you want or need to rebuild it (as we all do eventually  ) - twin 40 or 45 DCOE's and a decent cam are one of the first mods then away you go .....

 

         

 

 

 

 

[Welly Jen]

To fit a pinto engine in a Westfield the original sump either needs to be shortened, or it is replaced by a new aluminium one that is less deep The capacity of a shortened sump is smaller than the original unless side wings are added. The aluminium ones are flat along the bottom to give the capacity. Westfield themselves supply an aluminium one. Is the dip stick going in all the way in to the tube to the plastic stop on the stick? I am asking because if it is a Westfield aluminium sump, then there is a baffle plate inside to control oil surge that has a small hole in it for the dip stick to fit through. If the stick is hitting the baffle plate instead of going through the hole, then you will show almost no oil on the stick. The same could well apply to other sumps with baffle plates. Might explain what you are seeing.

 

As others have said, you want 20W50 oil in a pinto. It is an old engine design and needs a relatively thick oil compared with modern ones. I find I need to keep the oil at the top mark of my dip stick. Any drop and there is a risk of oil surge when braking as the oil piles up at the front of the sump and leaves the pick up dry.

 

Fingers crossed that all is well.

 

Jen

[cliver44]

Thanks for replies they really help and I appreciate people taking the time to reply. I bought some oil and a filter and plan on changing it this weekend. I will see what sump is on there. I think the engine was provided by westfield as part of a SEI package . I have the build folder which seems to suggest this is the case, so maybe it has the aluminum sump.

I'm pretty sure the dip stick was all the way in.

[SootySport]

You don't have to worry about the cambelt breaking on 2.0 Pintos, it does not result in damage to valves or camshafts.    

[cliver44]

Well I changed the oil and filter. Hard to tell as I had topped the oil up, but I reckon there was less than 3 litres in there.

The dip stick was in correctly and was not reading anything prior to my top up. The sump does look to be alloy and is most certainly not a standard sump. Not sure how that impacts the dipstick level. I would have thought it would be the same still. 

I couldn't see any metal in the oil, although it was that black it was hard to tell. I tried rubbing ti through my fingers and looking in the drain pan remnants after I had emptied the rest into a suitable container. So I that seems a good sign. I had a good listen to the engine and it sounds sweet. Hopefully not too much damage done.

Went for a drive Sunday and had a smile back on my face. 

Thanks for all the helpful feedback.