Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 A fresh picture would help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terryathome Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Buttercup, leave the shocks alone and get the offset right, thats your problem and the only solution is to get the off set correct so the tyre sits inside the wheel arch. Unless you have left a spacer on the hub thats pushing the wheel outwards? have you checked? Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Carter (Buttercup) Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Hi Terry. I cannot check until I go home but I don't change a wheel myself.... Everything that gets done to the car is done by a garage. I have such little free time that I would rather pay someone to do the work whilst I get on with other things. I have emailed the manufacturers of the wheel and I am waiting for their response. I could understand it if I had done the offsets myself but I specifically drove the car from Scarborough to Birmingham to be measured by a specialist. Comments noted about the shocks and I will leave well alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 What size are the wheels, what's the current offset and what size are the tyres? And for reference, what were the same dimensions on the wheels you took off? Are the new wheels wider, narrower or the same size. (Obviously, we're all assuming wider). What have Image actually been asked to do? I know this might seem an odd question, and it's possibly hard to recall now.. But they're a specialist making quite a specialist product. Were they asked to measure, and keep the outside of the wheel in the same position relative to the arch, which patently has been failed at. Or were they asked to do something more vague like "keep the offset the same" or are they expecting to have to adjust the offset to keep any extra width even added to each side of the wheel, or do they think you needed to keep the inner face of the wheel in an identical position for clearance, implying the outside would be looked after by trimming etc. It's possible it's you're talking at crossed purposes between you. Or it could be that they've just cocked up again. If we knew the size wheels you're talking about, we could possibly spot whether there's an obvious miss match. Don't forget, they're a wheel specialist not a Westfield specialist and quite a lot of the Westfield owners that use them are doing so with quite track focused cars, with some quite specific requirements. Fitting wider arches, trimming back the rim of the arch etc will all be par for the course for them. Many may even be so stiffly sprung for the track that the same wheel dimensions wouldn't be an issue. Equally, if you have Metalastic bushes, you'd be amazed how much the wheels can move around as the bushes flex. Again, this is something you might only notice under certain situations, and they would perhaps be less likely to be aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Carter (Buttercup) Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Hi Dave. I took buttercup to be measured for the wheels and I told Image that I wanted to replace the wheels and use the same tyres as the tyres I had were like new. When I later collected the wheels I took the car to have the wheels fitted and the tyres taken off my old wheels and put onto the new ones. The garage rang me at work and said the wheels were the wrong size and to small and the only round it was to buy larger tyres so I bought a brand new set of 5 Toyo tires. I had them deliverd to the garage to be fitted. I then went for the car and the wheels on the back were to wide and when I sat in the car they hit the bodywork. I took them back to image and the garage that fitted my wheels said the back needed to be the same as the fronts. This is what allegedly what the wheels have been remade to. I asked image about the rear wheels that were originally wrong and the chap said he measured the fronts which are perfect but just made the rears the same as what he had made for other westfields. My car is booked in at the garage next time I go home to see if a spacer has been left on the wheel by mistake as commented in a previous post. I don't understand cars at all in any way shape or form and freely admit to it which is why I am prepared to travel and pay specialists to get things right. I just don't know what has gone on but will see what happens in the next couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 Unfortunately, you've stumbled through the looking glass that is Westfields and their wheel sizes/offsets on this one. Part of the problem is that even if you completely ignore the wheel widths and how that affects offsets, The factory in developing the cars design over the years has used a number of different offsets. To complicate matters even further, some generations of Westfield used different offsets at the front and back. Simply going off what worked on one Westfield doesn't guarantee it will work on another. But only a Westfield specialist who's been around a bit and seen lots of generations of cars will know this. Equally, some Westfield owners do run slightly wider rear wheels to the front. Do do you recall what size tyres the garage got you to buy? (And what size the originals were?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigHew Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 My advice is to keep things simple and get back to basics. 1. You took your car to have some new wheels fitted by a specialist. 2. They looked at your old wheels and sold you some new ones. 3. You had problems with tyres fouling bodywork. The simple truth is that the wheels they sold you were not the correct specification. I would be pushing them hard to resolve this for you at minimum inconvenience to yourself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Car Electronics Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Sounds to me like you got stitched up by the tyre garage. If you fit wider tyres, they have to go somewhere! Can't hold Image responsible for your change of rubber. As Dave said, what size did you have before and after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Yep, I'm of the same view as Craig and Mike. If we know the sizes we might be able to advise if the rears can be made to fit, but you may be on a hiding to nothing. Depending on the size combination it is possible that without wider arches or bodywork mods the rears simply can't fit. From what you say, Image made (an understandable, though silly) mistake assuming the back were the same as the front. Then somehow they've been made the wrong width? At which point, they should have gone back to Image to be made the right width. Instead the garage has got you to buy a new set of tyres, this has then locked you into trying to make the wheels fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tisme Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Buttercup - from your avatar picture the original wheels look like 16 or 17 inch whilst the new Image ones look slightly smaller (very difficult to tell though and may be because the "minilite" centres look smaller) - was the comment from the garage that "the tyres were too small" relating to diameter or width (I would have thought unlikely to be width alone as most tyres around that size will accommodate a reasonable variance on rim width - though depends on manufacturers recommendations). Quite understandable if you haven't got the time (or inclination) to "get your hands dirty" but as others have said, the Westfield is a mix & match vehicle that's difficult to make any assumptions about parts, sizes, specifications etc - even for quite knowledge mechanics !! It may help even at this stage to try and make a note of any numbers / lettering you can find on the wheels and tyres (or ask the garage) - perhaps likewise just try and compile a list of basics like oil type, filter numbers, spark plugs and so on - these details may not mean much but will be useful in future "debugging" and also double checking with your garage the next time they do something to the car. As for the problem with the rear wheels though, I would go back to your originals and either take some measurements or ask the garage (or any forum members in the area) - this website is extremly useful for explaining offsets and the impact of changing wheel/tyre sizes http://www.willtheyfit.com/ Obviously if the diameters are different, then of course your garage would have had to change the tyres (though having a chance to shop around may save you a considerable sum if you know the sizes you need). If it's a width issue, then finding out the rim width & tyre size of the old ones and then the new ones and posting on the forum we'd be able to advise if they were within tolerance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 IMAGE do make mistakes - they did on the wheels for my XTR but they are normally very open to sorting. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Carter (Buttercup) Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 Thanks guys for all the help and advice and the time taken to provide the long answers. My original wheels were 16 inch and that is what I was expecting to receive so that they fitted the original tyres. The wheels came as 15 inches and the tyre garage said I needed 50 tyres and not 45 to keep the same rolling radius and that is what I ordered. The original were 205 / 45 Toyo Proxes and the new ones are 205 / Toyos. Just getting a bit down in the dumps a bit regarding the wheels as its cost me so much money with everything trying to get it sorted. The car is booked in to have the wheels removed on Saturday when I go home so will be able to update further then. Just a big thanks once again to all your help and advice. it really is appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 That's great info, thanks. It makes a substantial difference. What dimensions for the new wheels does your invoice from Image give? Something like 7x15"? Possibly 8x15" at the back, at a pinch? i would say at this point that it looks like I age have really dropped the ball (they obviously half recognise this having made some changes already). What I would suggest though, before speaking to them, is to have it clear as possible in your mind how they've gone wrong, and what resolution you'd like. Many would say that 15" wheel and a slightly higher profile tyre are beneficial anyway, so don't panic about that, but do point out that thanks to their mistake you are out of pocket for a set of tyres. The next thing is to make sure the offset and width of the rear wheels are exactly what you require. This may need a bit of homework on your behalf, but it's worth it as you can tell them what you need. Fortunately they're modular wheels, so they can be "adjusted". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kit Car Electronics Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I'm speechless. I'm sure you don't know whether to laugh or cry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Well all I can say is that 15" wheels is what Westfield fit as standard, and 205/50 x 15" tyres is (or was when my car was built) the factory "competition" option, so they should be ideal. Oh and the "competition" option wheel was 7" rim width. So, if you have 205/50 x 15" tyres on 15" x 7" wheels, then the offset is definitely wrong, otherwise they would fit fine. In fact I'd go so far as to say on my car I think you could have lowered the suspension so much that the lowered floor pans were almost dragging on the ground, and the tyres still would not be in contact with the bodywork. Now, if you have gone for 8" rims, it does get quite tight, however it should still just about fit, although the amount of offset becomes very critical. Anything wider than 8" rim width would require (on my late type car at least) special extra wide wheel arches to be fitted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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