Postal dispute advice.

[Darrell O'Neill]

I may keep this a little vague incase it turns legal, but...

 

I recently advertised an item on ebay, I was then contacted by a guy who wanted to buy it away from the ebay site.

 

We agreed a price, and then he payed CASH into my bank account. I then sent the item Special delivery, signed for and insured for £1000 the next day.

 

48hrs later, the guy contacted me, saying that the tracking number I gave him showed that the delivery took place that day (at his business address as requested) but claimed the signature wasn't his and that no-one at that address could confirm that that there had been a delivery at 9,42am as the tracking indicated. He claims the parcel was not delivered.

 

RM gave me a proof of delivery letter, showing the signature, but the guy still maintains he does not have the item.

 

He has not yet asked for his money back but had provided me with an email from RM stating that its my responsibility as the seller and asking me to make an insurance claim.

 

All a bit suss to me, but the guy does kinda seem genuine.

 

Ive made an official complaint with RM and the link we have been given to make a claim has a form with only three option, 'loss of parcel' 'damage' and 'item arrived but parts missing' The 'loss' option does not let me proceed with the claim as its less than 15 working days since the delivery was expected.

 

Anyone have experience of this, or legal knowledge on this kind of matter? where do I go from here?

 

Is it my responsibility? the money may be in my bank, but I don't want it to back on me if I rub my hands of the matter...

 

[Nick Algar - Competition Secretary]

Really bad situation Darrell. RM will say they delivered it, so it's not their problem. Might be worth a call to their customer service people as they must come across this all the time. If you phone and ask their advice then hopefully they would be helpful.

[Quinten]

If the guy requests to have it posted to his business address, then it is his responsibility to ensure the parcel is received. He should file the claim with Royal Mail, and you should be prepared to offer as much evidence to support your story of posting it to the address he asked for. Royal Mail will accept a claim from Sender or Recipient, but not both. You as the Sender has done everything you need to ensure it arrived in one piece and with adequate insurance.

That's my opinion, but having done a few claims with Royal Mail in the past (for lost post), it is a pretty straightforward process (if not a bit lenghty with the 15 days waiting time).

[Darrell O'Neill]

That's exactly what ive done Nick.

they've stated they delivered it and consider it confirmed. The recipient however is a little more irate stands by his claim that it wasn't and says RM state I have to carry out the claim...

Part of me just thinks I have done my bit, I have proof of delivery and if someone his end has signed for and run off with it, its his bad luck.... but I also fear that attitude will bit me in the A***...

I certainly aren't refunding his money and losing the item...

[Darrell O'Neill]

Thanks Quinten. Good advice.

Im tempted to write to the recipient, say that as far as Im concerned Ive done my bit, but offer my support and leave him to carry out the claim....

but just don't know if that's legal. he's insisting that RM are telling him I should make the claim.

I believe too that as a business address it puts the onus on him, but I cant find evidence of it.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

Looking at this simplistically you have provided evidence that the parcel has been delivered to his address. If he wants to pursue a claim with you or RM would he not have to provide proof that it has not been delivered?

[Quinten]

From what I have read (elsewhere) is that RM will put the claim in with the local delivery office and then take up to 30 days to investigate. Obviously they will want to speak to the postie who supposedly delivered it and then it becomes just a 'he said, she said' argument between Recipient and RM. Offer your assistance in the claim, but do not be persuaded to do it for him.

[pistonbroke]

Where does Ebay stand on this , have you no comebacks  there  ?

[XTR2Turbo]

Was it a signed for delivery?

 

Do you have the name of who signed for it?

 

It's not uncommon for my business to send things, two day later someone calls and swears blind they have not received.

 

We tell them who signed for it and magically they find it put on a shelf or in the corner somewhere.

 

David

[pickmaster Andy Lowe]

I THINK

You paid RM for the service and its your item till delivered so you need to make the claim

That's probably not what you want to hear but that's what I've found in the past

You should be paid out by YOUR insurance that's what it's for

You have done everything needed and have proof of it

But you need to claim on your insurance

Trying to fob the claim off to him will extend everything

That's been my experience anyway

[AdamR]

I'd start the claim with RM from your side.

Reasons being:

You're doing what the buyer wants you to do.

RM may mysteriously find the item if they have it once a claim is started.

If you start the claim (not the recipient) then you 'hold the cards' and he can't cheat the system, ending up with item and money.

You claim for the full 1k, then if the item hasn't turned up in the meantime you pay him what the item cost and the rest covers your time and stress.

The claim will take about 6-8 weeks in my experience, but its not your fault so the guy can just sit tight.

[Darrell O'Neill]

Thanks for the advice. Have emailed RM requesting they confirm where to go from here and whether its my responsibility or the recipients

[Boombang]

Can't add much to this bar hoping you can sort it out easily. Do think as it has been signed for you may find any claim difficult.

I would personally have politely declined to get involved - you have evidence of a signature and therefore delivery, end of story.

[Aerodynamix Ltd]

Hope you get this sorted Darrell , my experience with Royal Mail and my local deliveries are shocking to the unit , however to my home from the same sorting office with a different postman is exceptional . I wouldn't be surprised if it got delivered  to the wrong place , I know they have all these systems in place but might it be worth having a word with the sorting office who delivered it if it was a high value item and see if the postman could help , longshot I know but sometimes the personal approach can work rather than the almost automated email type answers you get in these situations . 

 

I have had stuff delivered to the wrong unit (there is a unit 3 over the road) , and stuff delivered to the wrong unit completely which is empty several times , nearly got a £3k bill due to being unaware that post had been sent to me ( I wasn't expecting it it) and a time clause being in place , all sorted though . Really frustrating makes you go 

[B.RAD]

Just thought I would add my own very recent experience here, I bought a cheap box of nylon lock nuts of eBay, all £5.75 worth inc postage. Seller kindly sent Tracked by Royal Mail. I got an email and a text message on the day of delivery saying my item had been delivered - only issue was I was in Spain with work at the time! Got home and sure enough, nothing there. Contacted seller who gave me the tracking number, checked Royal Mail website which just 'confirmed delivery'. I followed the links to raise a claim with Royal Mail that it had not been delivered, but their system stated that only the sender could raise a claim with them. Contacted sender again to advise this, got a short reply stating they have proof of delivery (just the same statement from the RM website) and that I didn't pay for tracking so should be happy with their extra diligence - yes all very lovely I said, but doesn't change the fact I had not received the item.

I didn't ask for a refund, just for seller to raise a claim with RM as I was not allowed to. Got no response so after a week, raised a case with eBay. More to'ing and fro'ing on email and eventually went to eBay to settle dispute, who favoured seller as he had proof of sending with the tracking number (but note, no actual proof of delivery) - very upsetting because I still didn't have the item I'd paid for! They closed the case so nothing further I could do. I rang eBay (on hold for 30 minutes) and explained that I am not after a refund, all I want is for the seller to raise a case with RM because I'm not allowed to, they said they would email the seller but unsurprisingly nothing ever happened.

Then out of the blue the package turned up with 'delivered to wrong address' hand written on the front - some kind sole who had had the item delivered to them had put it back in the post box!

I only offer this story as evidence that Royal Mail do get it wrong on occasion and the Tracking facility is only any good if the delivery agent delivers it to the right address, but also to explain that the recipient is not able to raise a case with Royal Mail, so it may help in this circumstance to do that for your buyer just to show that you are doing all you can. If the buyer is being honest in this situation then the issue isn't with you or the buyer, it is with Royal Mail and there is a process to follow to make that case.

It is a really frustrating and time consuming situation for both of you but you can be assured you have done right by getting proof of postage, so whatever happens you are covered, I just hope the £1000 is enough to cover the cost of the item AND refund the chap, if it comes to that.

Best of luck with it all.