Half or Full cage

[XTR2Turbo]

I don't think on the road rolling over is the risk.  Going into something that makes first contact with your head is the greater risk or a side impact.

 

On track / sprint I think the greater risk is rolling.

 

So a cage makes sense for different reasons on road and track.

 

As others have said, each will make their own risk assessment but please don't think the only risk is rolling.

[pickmaster Andy Lowe]

How many cars do you know that have turned over ON THE ROAD

I know of a few fatal accidents but none of those turned over.

On track, in race conditions, then I can see the point of a full cage.

I ran my car for two years with no roll bar. The original 7s didn't have one. It was only others telling Lynne I'd get killed and her worrying that made me put it back on.

I come across an upturned car about once every 2 years !!!!!!!!!!

All within 5 miles of our house

We have some great A roads with hills and steep banking on one side then big drop on the other

The normal flip starts with clipping the backing on the inside on a down hill bend

That pull the wheel and car into the banking

Tightening the turn and flipping the car on its roof down the wrong side of the road

I'm getting quite good at first aid and traffic directing

These are not normally boy racers but older drivers and normally locals too

I agree Norman it is very rare to see a non towing car on its roof, but when you add down hill and soft soil bank on the inside of a corner

So far

MGF

Mondeo

407

106

Rover 75

Rover 200

[Norman Verona]

Pickmaster, I meant a 7 type car. I've seen lots of tintops turned over.

[pickmaster Andy Lowe]

Pickmaster, I meant a 7 type car. I've seen lots of tintops turned over.

Ok not seen one of them go over but ?

[Pistol Pete]

Just to give a bit a of balance, the current MSA regulation (presuming it haven't changed for 2014) don't require any roll over protection for sprints and hill climbs in the road going classes.

[Norman Verona]

Isn't the point that anything can happen. A full cage on the road will protect against injury from certain types of event but not others.

 

My advice is that if you're worried about getting injured in a Westfield then maybe it's time to exchange it for a Hummer.

 

I'm a firm believer that we can drive in a manner that will avoid most accidents. That's not to say you can avoid all accidents just by driving defensively a lot will be avoided.

 

I drove 800,000 miles in a ten year period and had no accidents, no "close shaves" and only needed to make an unplanned avoiding move once.

 

The last accident I had was about 30 years ago when council workers didn't put a sign out for roadworks which were round a sharp bend on a main road. I turned the corner and ran into the back of the last car in the traffic queue.  

[Nizztos]

I'm with Norman on this one.

 

Cage or no cage I don't think a seven can be considered a safe care compared to say a modern Volvo. No matter what type of protection you add there are accidents that you are not protected against. Cages and rollbars are in themselves a risk in certain types of accidents if you don't drive with a helmet (and possibly even with). Four point harnesses are no good if not properly fastened which I doubt many do on a short road trip. There is no deformation zone on the steering axle (the Westfield one is not allowed here in Sweden for instance, we have to build new ones). Many put seats in that I think, with no evidence to support it, could cut you badly when they crack in an accident.

 

A cage will protect against more accidents than a rollbar. Potentially it will also cause some injuries that the rollbar would not in other types of accidents. It could also potentially make you feel immortal and make you drive in a way you would not if it wasn't there. One of the best protections out there is probably to be aware that you are probably not as good a driver as you think you are. Especially in traffic.

 

In the end you have to just decide what type of risk you are willing to accept given looks, convenience, cost etc. If you want a safe car you should walk away.

[Norman Verona]

Personally, I can't see the point in having a open topped car (with or without a windscreen) and then putting your own personal tintop on. 

 

OK for the race track but aren't you missing the point wearing a helmet on the road?

 

I have a helmet and wore it once in heavy rain on a motorway. It's in the garage somewhere now and I get wet if it rains and slow down if it rains heavy when I'm on a dc or motorway.

 

Most of the time I just get all the benefits of an open car with no screen, like insects in your face To be honest I don't get much stuff in the face as the aero directs it over my head. That includes small stones.

[cast iron]

Terry (Tex) Brown rolled his on his Honeymoon, without a cage, he survived, but his new car is fully caged...and his wife (Still) wont even go in the car anymore.

 

(((Just be aware when you are talking about welding a cage it must be done, for competition vehicles, by a certified welder, and if you read the blue book, cages fitted after a certain date, must be fitted by an approved MSA installer )))THIS IS NOT AN MSA REQUIREMENT, CHECKED AND CONFIRMED - BY COMPETITION SECRETARY

[Paul Morcom]

Cage or Roll Bar? It's a personal choice.

 

For me it would be a full cage, carbon race seats and six-point harnesses for both driver and passenger. Plus full face helmet(s) if using an aeroscreen.

 

I could never forgive myself as a driver if I survived and the passenger didn't fair as well as I did.

[Mark (smokey mow)]

 

The last accident I had was about 30 years ago

I thought you'd had one in the Caterham much more recently than that

[Plays-Kool]

Just be aware when you are talking about welding a cage it must be done, for competition vehicles, by a certified welder, and if you read the blue book, cages fitted after a certain date, must be fitted by an approved MSA installer

 

I'm afraid that is incorrect information!

 

As taken from the Blue Book here is the relevant information on Welding:

 

1.3.8. Guidance on Welding. All welding should be of

the highest possible quality with full penetration and

preferably using a gas shielded arc. Although good

external appearance of a weld does not necessarily

guarantee its quality, poor looking welds are never a sign

of good workmanship. When using heat-treated steel the

instructions of the manufacturer must be followed

(special electrodes, gas protected welding). It is to be

emphasised that the use of heat-treated or medium

carbon steels may cause problems and that bad

fabrication may result in a decrease in strength (caused

by brittle heat-affected zones) or inadequate ductility

 

As to the Blue Book requiring you to having an MSA approved installer fitting it after a certain date, there is absolutely no mention of it that I can see!!

[Norman Verona]

I thought you'd had one in the Caterham much more recently than that

 

 

 

Sorry, I forgot all about that. Must be  a Freudian slip!

 

 But it's a good example. I was driving North on a main road, single carriageway, at about 60 mph. The road dips into a hollow just before a left and right junction. They are not exactly opposite so it can't be considered a cross road. Coming South is a lady in an Audi. She wants to turn left (across the carriageway)  She cuts the corner and I come up out of the dip to see an Audi grille about 20 meters in front of me. I instinctively swerve left to avoid the car. As the road is damp and greasy, it had rained for the first time in months about an hour earlier, the car starts to slide and turns 135 degrees and ends up slamming into the armco on the other side of the road with the front wheel and then the impact spins it round so the rear hits the armco.

 

I suffered 9 cracked ribs but no other injury.

 

The insurance company accepted my version and speed even though the local Gendarme's report says I was driving too fast. He said that as soon as he saw the car even before he asked anyone what had happened. The lady driving the Audi was telling everyone she hadn't seen me coming the other way. 

 

Thanks for reminding me, Mark, I hadn't intentionally forgotten. In fact I sat here thinking it through to try and remember if I'd had an accident since driving up someones backside in the Renault 18 Turbo. 

[Terry Everall]

I'm with Paul on this one and don't even know where I would find an "MSA approved list" of installers

[peet]

I used to weld cars for a living and can see what they mean in the rule book.

People concentrate so much on how pretty a weld is trying to copy machine welds they seem scared to up the amps and actually melt and weld the metal together!