Pay Pal, how does it work?

[Norman Verona]

OK, I know you can just use it as you would a credit card on Ebay.

 

But say someone wanted to pay you money and you/they wanted to use pay pal for the transaction would you have to give them account details and what details?

 

I know you probably wouldn't do this but just curious as it was the favoured option by 7 of the 8 scammers who wanted to buy my Audi. I suspected they wanted details which would enable them to draw money out.

 

The other option I thought of was that this was the opening offer and then they would say they've seen the PayPal charges and would I accept a bankers draught.

 

All but one of these scams came through the Ebay ad but one was from the Autotrader ad. I reported this one to Autotrader who replied and said they had passed it on to the Police. 

[John Williams (Panda) - Joint Manchester AO]

I would suspect its charge backs...

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/chargebacks

And I would think they would buy the car, then ring up PayPal in 90 days time and then try and get their money back...

I wouldn't do a big transaction that way.

[Norman Verona]

OK, that's what they're doing.

The one I reported was an obvious scam. He agreed my asking price, couldn't get to see the car as he was overseas (he did say where, I can't remember), and wanted to add £600 to pay the shipping agent who would collect the car. He was going to send a bankers draught.

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

Hi Norman, I guess it's not so much PayPal per se, but the lack of understanding of some arou d how it works that makes it a 'useful tool' by scammers!

Most people who buy from eBay will have a PayPal account and the transaction is usually seamless. If however, the buyer doesn't have an account or the item is bought by someone with an account, they need to open one (it's free, so they should have no objection in opening one).

You have two options at this point: (1) you can invoice them by sending a money request or (2) they place money directly into your account. They have a few options on how to describe the payment ie 'gift', 'for eBay item', etc. this will determine who pays the PayPal fees.

*The only details you need to exchange with the other person is the email address that you use to set up your PayPal account!!

Scams generally centre around a seller's .. ummm, naivety, in excepting a part payment up front and the seller sends the goods before all transactions are finalised. If a buyer doesn't like the PayPal fees, and wants to do the deal via a Bankers Draft, then as with any such transaction, the seller should ensure that monies have cleared their account before sending off the goods.

PayPal works and works well IMHO, and I've been using it for about 10 years. Fees can be high as the amount of money involved increases but it's a quick and simple method of transferring money about.

HTH

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

OK, that's what they're doing.

The one I reported was an obvious scam. He agreed my asking price, couldn't get to see the car as he was overseas (he did say where, I can't remember), and wanted to add £600 to pay the shipping agent who would collect the car. He was going to send a bankers draught.

It's not clear from above where the scam is. If you wait for the bank transaction to clear into your account, then you arrange for the shipping of the car, where's the scam? The scam is when people send the goods prior to receiving payment and never hear from the scammer again.

Also, with such shipping (car), you're covered with more than just the PayPal T&Cs..

[Norman Verona]

Bombero, the ones who offered to pay via PayPal were probably going to stop payment as described above.

 

The "normal" scam is to answer your ad by asking if the car is OK and saying they can't get to see it as they are in Spain or South Africa or on an oil rig etc. They offer you the asking price and ask if they can add shipping agent costs so you can pay the agent when the car is collected. They offer to send a bankers draught.

 

The scam is that you bank the draught (usually drawn on an overseas branch of Barclay's) and wait for clearance (4 days)  You then give the agent a cheque for £600 when they drive your car away. 6 weeks later the bank ring you to say they are taking the money back as the draught has been returned from the issuing bank as a forgery. You've lost your car and the £600. There is no chance of tracing them.

 

A friend of mine lost his car and £600 this way. The car was a £58,000 Range Rover, 9 months old.

 

It is a well known scam.

 

I suspect the Pay Pal offers asked for my PayPal details so they may have been attempting to draw money from my PayPal account.  Or, having been hooked they may then have said that they hadn't realised how much the PayPal charges were and would I take a bankers draught.

[dombanks]

norm they cant draw money from your paypal account. its not a bank account. if you have $1Bn  in your account and they bought a widget from you for £1 then the only amount they could get back is the £1 they put in and that is only through the official complaint channel.

 

i think pay pal is great as a buyer. not so convinced as a seller but i dont sell much and when i do i tend to just leave it in there as i know ill use it for something soon enough.

 

i know my bank details are not given over to the other party and if the item is not right there is a way to complain. although i have only ever had to do that twice the rest of the time the sellers are ok with it and it gets sorted out fine.

 

what  i dont like is this new thing they have of buy now pay later. so the old way it works was simple you buy, your paypal account crdits them the money, your paypal account the takes money from your specified place. so now they have added a time delay into the situation. so there is a 10 day gap or so between the paypal/seller transaction and the paypal/bankaccount transaction. its very annoying as if you buy loads of little things its not so easy to keep track.

[Norman Verona]

Dom my first thoughts, by the way it was worded, was that the offer to pay by paypal was a "hook". All said the same thing, that paypal was safe and secure and could I send my account details so they could make payment. As there was a "buy it now" price on the ad they didn't need my details.

I thought that they would then follow up saying they'd just seen how much the paypal charges were and could they send a bankers draught instead.

By the language I don't think any were English. Who knows were they were.

[Rab (bombero) Reid]

Dom's right in that they can't draw anything from your account but you're also right norm that, as a seller, the scammers try to 'hook' the unsuspecting seller into releasing goods prior to full payment.

When I sell, I always ensure that monies have completely cleared my account first. Buyers saying to you to cover shipping are scammers in the main because it's as easy for a buyer to arrange shipping themselves as it is for the seller!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but my advice FWIW, and when dealing with a large sum of money, is to obtain (and confirm) as much detail about the buyer as possible - a genuine buyer will have no issues with offering this up. That's terrible news about your mate, Norm and sorry to hear about it!!

[Norman Verona]

I would only accept payment by cash or bank transfer. The buyer used transfer, it just took him 20 days to do it!

[dombanks]

i understand the hook norm but your wording is still along the lines of "send my bank details" im just trying to clarify that if your using pay pal for the whole transaction, buy now included, then your bank details go nowhere.

 

if they hit buy now and then asked you directly for you personal account details via a email/ebay message  them thats a different story. in this instance pay pal would not be used period.

 

the whole point of paypal is your bank details are never disclosed.

 

car scams on ebay seem pretty common and well documeneted. safest way is cash on collection if its a small enough amount. but i appriciate thats not an option for you inparticular