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I can't help thinking this is an impossible argument to win. "I'm not interested in your TTs." then my question is quite simple: why are you taking part in the debate on this thread? It doesn't seem to be relevant to you? I'm an "also ran" in the speed series, and I enjoy taking part in it, regardless of the scoring method, provided that the people who win are the fastest. Personally, I cannot imagine a more friendly and helpful bunch of people taking part in competition. I've had lots of help and advice from those I compete against, and I wouldn't want to compete in any other championship. However, if you prefer to compete elsewhere, then great and I hope you enjoy it, but don't pretend you do so because of our scoring method!

Guys I have had my say but must now say that I am fully behind the efforts of the SSOT. Unlike MLC I only want to make points that need a debate and will improve our championship in the long term. It is the best series around by a long shot. Some of the points raised are valid but there is no easy or clear cut solution. See you in the paddock at as many events as I can. Lets hope we all keep beating the TT. I had a good go in the new blade at 3 sisters and whilst on track the fact I am against TT or other competitors never crosses my mind cos I am too busy screwing the best out of the car

Stuart I for one as you know support you and the target time system... so there you are Mick, some support from a SSOT member.!! As webmaster puts it, we do our best not put our individual and personal views on the forum as all this does is feed argument from usually people who just want to ****** off target times or whatever else is flavour of the month to b***h about. Let me make a couple of things clear: 1. The decisions made by the SSOT are debated and voted on and discussed before they are put into the regs. This does NOT mean that we individually or personally agree on ALL the decisions made, however all are discussed and voted on democratically. There are certain aspect of the regs I dont personally agree with, however I will keep what they are to myself and will lobby Nick and the rest of the team when it is appropriate to do so. I will be at a few events this year so if any competing driver has any points they want raising with the team then speak to me personally and I will raise it on your behalf or drop Nick an email. 2. The SSOT does listen toconstructive critisism or observation such as those highlighted by Paul Aspden in his opening post. Not every eventuality can be forseen when a new rule is introduced. These observations and critisisms will be looked at by the SSOT and ways will sought to resolve the issues if it is deemed to be a problem. 3. Do I agree with target time system ? Yes I do, and for the record I was a sceptic at first however having raced under both systems I can say that the TT system has made me a quicker driver, and certainly doesnt detract from anyones enjoyment on the day. You have to drive your nuts off even more under this system, which is, after all, the whole point. In 2010 Barney won the championship outright which he would'nt have done under the old system, so are you saying that someone who probably should have won the championship years ago but couldnt because of lack of numbers, isnt a worthy champion. What is the value of winning a championship against little or no competition. Mid Life you are entitled to your opinion however, frankly, I find your description of the whole thing a dogs dinner as offensive, and I as i cant remember you showing your face in the paddock for the past three years at least, I think its a bit rich to be ******ging it, and the SSOT off! From what I remember you were quite sucessfull when you were competing so what on earth is your problem, if you entered you would probably be still winning trophies. What are you afraid of ? ......getting beaten ! The fact that entries are down is sod all to do with target times. All clubs are struggling and we lost a couple of events last year due to the economic climate. The cost of Diesel and travelling to the events is really hurting the national championships. It is noticable for example that the Longton club still seems to be strong on entries probably due to that fact that they only run at North West Circuits therefore keeping cost down. They can do that as a local club but we dont have that luxury.! Thats my rant over..............for now.

This has been done to death now. I think it's time we all accepted that no system will suit everyone. I for one don't agree with all that has been implemented in the last year or so and have aired my views publically and to the SSOT, However, I accept that the descisions made are valid and fair, or certainly as fair as they could be. We all make informed choices, no-one is forcing anyone to compete in our Championship, accept it for what it is or move on. Steve/MLC, you have made your point but are in danger of alienating yourself from people who I think you would have classed as paddock friends in the past, don't let your personal views get confused with what I read as personal insults. You've voted with your feet, you've made your point. There is absolutely no harm in debating valid points but jeezus, let's all take a deep breath and not get personal. We are allowing ourselves to destroy our reputation as both a fantastic FRIENDLY club and Excellent championship. Toys back in prams please. Out.

turn up drive enjoy yourself and go home happy , you do it to be happy at the end of the day ,simples if you dont like tt there are other championships you can do but stop f***** whining about tt's its getting boring now ,whatever system is used there are people who will still not be happy ,thats life get one and move the **** on for **** sake

I am not convinced that TTs have had any impact on the money invested/squandered in cars, thats very much pre-dates TTs, I suspect there has been an increase in entry/tyres fees needed to reach a competitive number of events which should probably be looked at in light of the current economic conditions.

Steve As far as I can see you have not come up with a single valid reason for dislikeing or the problem on the day for TTs Stuart I don't have to. I, as have other previous competitors evaluated the situation presented and voted with my feet. In the past years for the few quid it costs to enter the SS, I may have entered just to give me the opportunity to do the odd event if I wanted to, and support the club. This year as last I haven't. The series I believe was at inception a low cost club series for owners of road going Westfields, with classes A,B,C and D. Not a check book series. It is now of no interest to me

Steve You do not say how TTs make any difference to you efforts or enjoyment on the day. Banter/mind games/ chance to win class on day are completely unaffected by TTs. You will only win your class on the day if you are fastest, with any score system. Mick I agree with the first part of your summary, but i still cant see how its fair on other competitors if one person is able to score max points very easily

This is my take on the Speed Series. Do you enter to compete or do you enter to win. Digest those words, compete and win. If you wish to first compete, you start with a car enter a class and then find that you are unable to compete never mind win because your car is not quick enough and your ability to drive is compromised by your lack of talent. So it begins, the never ending money trap. More power , different wheels, tyres, gearbox,dampers, suspension, seat time and any other improvement that you be believe will make you quicker. Three or four years later there is no comparision between the car then and now. Because you now intend to win. My take on target times were that they were introduced to make it easier for newcomers to compete, but they can only compete with other newcomers in their class. They will not win against established competitors in that class. And If you wish to win the class or championship why should it have to go to the last event. And also if due to a lack of numbers in your class you are able to go to an event and drive sedately around to collect maximum points why should you be demeaned for it. You have just taken advantage of other drivers apathy and laziness to change classes or cars. Then you have done precisely what you need to do to win, and its cheaper . Congratulations to that man.

There will be a few first timers, myself and bombero are both track virgins

Funniest thing at a sprint event there ever was when the Caterhams were competing as part of their championship, four of them lined up as normal but when the light turned green ALL FOUR took off together :laugh:

and a dictionary...

If you're looking for your missing u c k i n and g I think Ash has them.

he will be a f***** dead person when i see him :laugh:

You're a bad person Ash :laugh:

Was in Steve D's workshop earlier and found these - capitals and punctuation marks. . K , ; . G . , , P H G , F " Q ' Y Lay around the floor, unused on the bench, discarded and in the bin. Just everywhere !