StanS Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 OK, so I'm satisfied it is legal to tow a westie using an A-Frame, so I now need to find out if its a straightforward job fitting whatever is needed to the Westfield to allow the A-frame to attach to it. If you use one, I'd be grateful if you could let me know what make you use and if you are pleased with it and how it fits to the Westie (I assume the bar that the a-frame attaches to is bolted to the space frame somewhere ?? Any feedback/recommendations would be appreciated Thanks Quote
Blatman Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 http://www.ukmotorhomes.net/a-frames.shtml The part where the trailer must have a secondary coupling that operates the brakes on the trailer if it becomes detached is probably where the a-frame could fall foul. OR... If the drawbar becomes detached and the brake can't operate then the drawbar may not touch the ground so the trailer may still maintain some sort of steering ability. If the a-frame intended to be used meets either of those requirements then it may be legal, BUT make sure you read to the end, including the footnote. Even that document leaves room for doubt and whilst I will agree that the chances of getting caught are remote, I worry less about being caught and more about a traffic incident of some sort. Coppers probably don't know any of this, but your insurance company might, and you'll have to tell them you're going to be towing so ask them for their advice. Quote
Wile E. Coyote Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 Probably being paranoid but given the strength of statements about legality, and the site on which it's published stating that it's the DfT's "official view", does anyone else find the lack of any scan of an official (DfT headed) copy of that letter a touch disconcerting? Even if it's legitimate, wouldn't the 20mph speed limit be a PITA? Quote
StanS Posted November 21, 2011 Author Posted November 21, 2011 >>If the drawbar becomes detached and the brake can't operate then the drawbar may not touch the ground so the trailer may still maintain some sort of steering ability>>. If the car/trailer becomes detached what is the point of maintaining any steering ability !! ?? Also there is a breakaway system that applies the brakes if the towed car breaks away. Anyway, I'm happy that they are legal - the towed car effectively becomes a braked trailer, so as long as the brakes/lights etc work it is then governed by trailer regs so no 20mph speed limit - 30/50/50/60 applies. If all the legal requirements are ticked than it would be up to a judge to decide if a law had been broken. With a Westie, I believe they are all met by the braked a-frames. http://www.caratow.com/legal.php These issues were covered in my other thread, (and a few other forums over the last week or so) so I'm happy that they are OK ! http://boardroom.wscc.co.uk/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=4;t=93443 What I need now on this thread is feedback from people who use them as to how they fit to the Westie and any recommended manufacturers. If you wish to add conjecture and speculation, please add it to the other thread !! Quote
dombanks Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 just out of interest are you thinking of one of those things like you see AA vans using that lift the front wheels up off the ground? Quote
SteveD Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 stan why not just ring vosa to clarify the a frame ,that way you will know for sure ,instead of buying summat which maybe or may not be legal ,there are a lot of things that people sell but dont make em legal ,so i would just ring vosa Quote
Captain Colonial Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 What SteveD says plus I know if I were dragging thousands of pounds and hours of love, sweat, blood and tears behind my car, I'd want a proper trailer and not an A-frame. But that may be just me. Best of luck. Quote
V 8 Posted November 21, 2011 Posted November 21, 2011 What I need now on this thread is feedback from people who use them as to how they fit to the Westie and any recommended manufacturers. If you wish to add conjecture and speculation, please add it to the other thread !! You'll need to be clearer than that to keep the teeth suckers at bay. I towed a Smart behind a motorhome. Didn't even know it was there. No snaking, perfectly stable and a 5hit load lighter without a trailer. Less faf to get hooked up aswell. Get it done. Quote
StanS Posted November 22, 2011 Author Posted November 22, 2011 Thanks for all the factual info/experiences. I will ring vosa and my insurance to get their slant. To me, the a-frame seems best as you don't have a trailer to find storage space for, the extra size to tow, and another thing to maintain. If its a "proper" a-frame, I see no difference to a "proper" trailer. Still hoping for a personal recommendation for a particular make of a-frame ! JeffC - so does the a-frame attach to the suspension rather than the space frame ? Quote
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 The biggest difference that occurs to me - but it's only really applicable to trackdays/competing is the peace of mind a full trailer gives of getting the car home should the worst happen. I've done events where I drove the WF there and back, and for me it really took the edge off a lot of enjoyment, compared to events where I'd borrowed a trailer. Every moment on track I had the "don't bend it" mantra going on in the back of my mind. I could certainly relax a lot more and enjoy the track time with the trailer. Quote
JeffC Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 JeffC - so does the a-frame attach to the suspension rather than the space frame ? yes lower wishbone cant work out how a braking system would work though Quote
JeffC Posted November 22, 2011 Posted November 22, 2011 The biggest difference that occurs to me - but it's only really applicable to trackdays/competing is the peace of mind a full trailer gives of getting the car home should the worst happen. push it outside call the rac, my pal just called the rac and they collected his from the paddock or worst road go back for it with a trailer Quote
StanS Posted November 23, 2011 Author Posted November 23, 2011 just out of interest are you thinking of one of those things like you see AA vans using that lift the front wheels up off the ground? Hi Dombanks - no - thats a dolly as I understand it which can only be used to remove a vehicle to a safe place rather than from one part of the country to another. Also over the last few days been doing more searching and found that the big hurdle is complying with all of EU71/320 re: brakes. As far as I can tell, the modern braked A-frames meet them for a non servo assisted braked car (which I assume the Westies are ) It seems that until a test case goes through court, this uncertainty re 71/320 remains, so the thousands of people who have/use an A-frame are open to being charged with an offence which until tested, may not be on offence ! Also I read somewhere that there are changes happening in 2014 which MAY cause their use to be banned Still leaning towards an A-frame rather than a trailer (for ease of use and as I have nowhere to store it !) Quote
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