Easy to be a pilot?

[DonPeffers]

If I've understood Ryanair's Michael O'Leary correctly then being a pilot is easy but making holiday rotas is hard.

Is this a line form the surreal comedy Father Ted?

[pistonbroke]

What grabs me is the money they get paid for sitting behind an autopilot cloudwatching for hours on end . In my book they should be paid for take off and landing time only , the rest of the time is R & R

[DonPeffers]

4 minutes ago, pistonbroke said:

What grabs me is the money they get paid for sitting behind an autopilot cloudwatching for hours on end . In my book they should be paid for take off and landing time only , the rest of the time is R & R

That would be a zero hours contract for pilots. 

They are supposed to be able to take over in an emergency but sadly failed in the case of Air France 447 from Brazil in 2009.

How about zero hours contracts for our MPs and Lords?

[Captain Colonial]

15 minutes ago, pistonbroke said:

What grabs me is the money they get paid for sitting behind an autopilot cloudwatching for hours on end . In my book they should be paid for take off and landing time only , the rest of the time is R & R

So by that logic, you’re saying fire fighters should be paid only if they are fighting a fire, etc., etc.

Yes, it’s a difficult job, certainly not automated to anywhere like the level pilots are not needed.  They are kept much busier than most think during the flight.  However, there is an old joke that planes in future will be eso automated that they be quipped with only a pilot and a watchdog.  The pilot will be there to press the button to takeoff and land, and the dog is there to bite the pilot if he touches any of the controls.

 

[jeff oakley]

There are a lot of planes now that are capable of full automation according to some of the guy's I know who work at Airbus. The issue is the public will not trust them yet when all you hear is hackers can do untold damage.

In the past being a pilot was a great job full of travel and time to see the world, now they are just drivers the glamour has gone and now it is taking plane loads of stag and hen parties to cheap places.

The likes of O'Leary have made this happen and the public will soon forget any bad press as £29 to Budapest against £250 with BA will ease the memory. 

[Steve (sdh2903)]

The technology is there for full automation and has been for a long time. But there's no way you'd get me on board without a human on board flying the damn thing.

I work in the industry and up until I got my current job I was in the band of folk saying pilots get paid to do sod all. However I routinely now fly along as a flying spanner to support the aircraft downroute and i was surprised to see how busy the drivers are during the cruise. I won't bore you with details but they are kept very busy. I've also witnessed them in action during a technical issue and it's impressive to see all the training kick in. No flap just very methodical and professional.

The problem with the knob o Leary is he's completely transformed the industry by driving costs through the floor and now everyone expects to get wherever for a tenner. Driving this is paying the pilots at little as possible. So today the industry is awash with cadet pilots who in some cases are paying to fly to get their hours up. He gets his pilots through numerous channels of agencies and sub companies to give them as little as possible in return. 

It's about time they all stuck together and made o Leary pay attention. Being recorded saying they don't do a hard job is not the smartest move he's ever made.

[corsechris]

An automation system wouldn't have saved AF447, it was primary sensor failures leading to the flight director dropping out which then left the crew with a plane in a situation they had never trained for which then resulted in total crew confusion and the horrible outcome. Read the investigation report if you've the mind, it's fascinating. Thankfully, lessons were learned and AF crews (and others) now train for high altitude flight conditions and problems. Hard to believe they didn't before then, but the assumption(!) was always made that problems don't happen up there.

I have a fundamental problem with the notion that anybody has a realistic expectation that you can fly to another country for less than the cost of a tank of petrol. It's bl**** ridiculous and the cracks are showing.

 

[Kit Car Electronics]

I heard a radio interview with a RyanAir pilot this morning - the whole employment and training situation sounds disgraceful - I hadn't realised that RyanAir is effectively a flight training school! The pilots even have to pay for their initial interviews.

[Thrustyjust]

1 hour ago, sdh2903 said:

 

It's about time they all stuck together and made o Leary pay attention. Being recorded saying they don't do a hard job is not the smartest move he's ever made.

I maybe 'middle aged' hmmmmm, but remember Ratners the jewelers and Gerald saying you'd get more life from a prawn sandwich than a piece of his jewelry............. I think he sold out to Elizabeth Duke though, same tat 

[DonPeffers]

17 hours ago, jeff oakley said:

There are a lot of planes now that are capable of full automation according to some of the guy's I know who work at Airbus. The issue is the public will not trust them yet when all you hear is hackers can do untold damage.

I've often wondered if Malaysia Airlines MH370 (March 2014) was hacked and then flown off course. From what I've read Malaysian military radar was the last contact with the plane when it was already well off its intended flight path and heading west instead of north  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26503141

Would the military just ignore this or shoot it down?   How would you tell the families and what would it do to plane travel worldwide?   Who knows?

Provided avoidance of hacking could be 100% guaranteed (and what is?) then the public might feel safer with a machine in control that couldn't become depressed, suicidal or motivated by misguided religious zeal.

Back to Ryanair and if the following story is true then it seems breathing could be an optional, fee based, extra for some travellers.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4030606/ryanair-crew-refuse-oxygen-to-disabled-man-80-during-panic-attack-as-he-didnt-pay-50-add-on-fee-before-flight/

[Steve (sdh2903)]

1 hour ago, DonPeffers said:

I've often wondered if Malaysia Airlines MH370 (March 2014) was hacked and then flown off course. From what I've read Malaysian military radar was the last contact with the plane when it was already well off its intended flight path and heading west instead of north  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26503141

I very much doubt that the 777 has the right technology to be able to be hacked and remotely flown. It was launched mid 90s so the on board tech is 5-10 years older than that. The newer tech aircraft such as the 787 has on board networking etc and some wireless functions but the amount of effort that Boeing puts into security it's obviously aware of the risks.

[Captain Colonial]

Modern airliners are much like F1 cars in that they can transmit huge amounts of operational performance information while in motion, but cannot receive any data changes back from base - it’s just not possible.  It’s because of the fear of hacking and remote control of a fully loaded passenger airliner that means this is unlikely to change any time soon.

The primary purpose of airliners transmitting performance data is so if there is an issue with the aircraft, they can see what it is way ahead of landing and have the right parts and labour ready prior to landing to reduce diagnosis time and downtime, and get the aircraft turned around fast so it can keep making money.  Rolls Royce’s 24 hour engine monitoring HQ is mind-blowing - it can see an issue with an engine long before the customer is aware or it becomes a big problem and dispatches a part and an engineer to the destination airport that gets there before the plane lands.

[Steve (sdh2903)]

18 minutes ago, Captain Colonial said:

Rolls Royce’s 24 hour engine monitoring HQ is mind-blowing - it can see an issue with an engine long before the customer is aware or it becomes a big problem

Indeed, and the diagnosis they can make from a simple shift in pressure or temperature is incredible.

19 minutes ago, Captain Colonial said:

dispatches a part and an engineer to the destination airport that gets there before the plane lands.

Yes in theory. In practice it never happens this way!!

[SootySport]

O'Leary doesn't seem to compromise that his pilots need holidays now and again.   They are paid above the industry standard and it seems to me they don't want the £12,000 bonus to forgo there holidays, they want to spend time with their families as we all do.  Ryanair simply don't have enough pilots to cover holidays and sick leave, a very basic staffing omission that all other companies seem to have grasped.

I for one would not want a semi trained pilot that can't take over control of a plane when there are problems with the aircraft and nor would any of you.

[iain m]

Living some 35 miles from Gatwick for the past 50 years some of the employees stories of what goes wrong on a daily basis would stop you flying. Gatwick is now a budget/flight/holiday airport, Easyjet just kicked BA out of the North Terminal and most of the Airline staff  are on Zero hour contracts and the rest of the employees, ( even boarder control ) are on what looks to be sensible money until you see the contracted hours with minimum holiday leave and no sick pay so if O'Leary is paying over the going rate he could possibly cut his pilots pay to level the average industry pay, it's being done every where. I retired at 65 over 10 years ago and I still check the job adverts and can not believe how well we were paid before 2008!!