dirty diamond Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 hi again all, even before i get home for the bank holiday to attempt to resolve my carb issue, i'm already thinking about replacing my xflow/ 4 speed in favour of a 2lt zetec and 5 speed box, the problem is i know little about the subject. I'm thinking of buying a brand new black top off ebay currently selling for £800 which i think is a bargain, are these engines ok compared to the silver top, and would i have to buy new mountings or would the old ones be ok and will it go in without any alterations to the chassis. Which gearbox would be best, would the clutch that comes with the engine be ok to use and does a 5 speed go in without any alterations to the chassis and would the 4 speed mountings be ok to re use. Does the mt 75 or the type 9 have the gearstick closest to hand or would i need an extention kit for either. Can the sump be easily altered for ground clearance or is it advisible to purshase a ready made one from whoever. Would the propshaft require shortening/altering. I think that is all i don't know on this subject, but if you could think anything else I probably don't know i would appriciate any and all input. Thanking you all in advance for your help, dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Rabbetts Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 Hi DD, I have pretty much finished putting a zetec in a narrow. Just got the odd little thing to resolve. I have kept the 4 speed box and so didn't need any chassis modifications. The 5 speed box has a different mounting point I understand which either requires an adapter plate or a the gearbox mounting moved. You will need new engine mounts as the crossflow ones are completely different. I found that the nearside mount from Westfield pretty much fits as is and just re-drill the chassis plate as the zetec mount sits further forward. The offside mount from Westfield is too long. You can either have this cut and re-welded or try and find a shorter mount. The Tiger Racing zetec mounts are shorter, a bit too short in fact, so I've used spacers to make up the difference. One thing I would say is that I had to trim a bit of plastic from the top of the cambelt cover so that the engine would fit under the bonnet. I'm not certain, but isn't the pre-lit bonnet line lower? Having said that I think my engine is mounted fairly high in the chassis. I had a bit of difficulty getting the clutch sorted. In the end I bought a zetec flywheel that was redrilled to take a pinto clutch cover from a 2.0 capri and used a clutch plate also from a 2.0 capri. This is because the 4 speed box has an output shaft with 20 splines and is 7/8" diameter whereas the type 9 has a 23 spline 1" diameter output shaft. After measuring the stack height of the clutch I kept the original clutch release bearing but with the type 9 I think you use a CCT133 clutch release bearing. Also while talking about the transmission you will need a spigot bearing to go in the end of the zetec crank. And you'll need a new starter motor as the pitch of the teeth on the crossflow and zetec flywheels are different. The blacktop sump can be altered as it's in two parts and the lower part is a steel pressing. The propshaft may well need altering if you change to a 5 speed gearbox. You will also need a new inlet and exhaust manifold and the latter can be expensive. That covers most things, but if your crossflow is running on a dizzy you will also need an ECU; megajolt, Emerald or OMEX, etc.and all associated wiring, throttle position sensor. I was lucky in that I already had a Megajolt system installed. My estimated spend at the start was £2000 for parts but I'm re-using my carbs and already had the ECU sorted. So for I've spent just over £1500 by picking up a few second hand parts but I still need to re-choke and re-jet the carbs and that will cost another £200 and then a rolling road session on top to get the best out of the new set-up, another £300. However, it looks like I might get a few hundred for the old crossflow parts: engine and manifolds etc. SO not too bad all in. Has it been worth it? It's been a challenge that I've mostly enjoyed despite some seriously cold evenings in the garage in January! Ask me again in a few weeks time when I've sorted the last few little issues and I've driven the car more than once round the block! Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 It's generally reckoned that to swap engines, assuming you do all the labour yourself, depending on whether you can pick lots up second hand etc. you'll end up spending roughly between £2000 and £3000 on top of the price of the engine. A very select band have done it for much less, but they're cut from the same cloth as those "scroungers" you'd alway see in prisoner of war films, that could get anything, anyware and for free! The MT75 gearbox is wider than a Type 9, the factory made the transmission tunnels wider on cars fitted with it. So without considerable mods, it's probably a no go. The chassis on regular narrows gets in the way of the Type 9 gearbox extension, it can have a bit cut out and rewelded though. As Ian said, if your bodywork is effectively low line, you'll struggle fitting more modern 16Valve engine in there. They really were designed for the OHV era engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty diamond Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 ian and gadgetman, thanks for your replies to my topic.You have given me food for thought, I really don't want to alter the chassis for the gearbox, so I think I would probably keep the 4 speed and try and do something with the gearstick. As regards the zetec I'll have to think long and hard before I embark on this venture, as with working away I have limited time to spend on the car. Ironic is'nt it, when I'm working away I have plenty of money to spend on the car, but little time and when I'm not working lots of time but little money. Oh, one last thing, doe's anyone know if the chassis is the same on a narrow as it is on a pre-lit. Once again, thanks for your help, regards dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleggy the Spyder Man Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 and as is often said it is cheaper to sell what you have and buy another car with your choice of engine having said that owners ate often attached to their motors and some enjoy the challenge of what is the biggest upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_prelit now westfield_bumble Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Try this link below for a silvertop conversion in a prelit. I've changed to a type 9 5 speed and had to move the mounting rest for the gearbox and was lucky and ony had to change the end on the prop shaft if i remember correctly http://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/51520-xflow-to-zetec/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty diamond Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hi Cleggy, i think you are right on both accounts. I havn't yet drove it yet and i have become a little attached, but having said that i think at some time i will have to change it for a wide due to rapid middle age spread and at the same get another with a more modern engine and 5 speed box, regards dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty diamond Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hi Scott, well done on the 5 speed and thanks for the link. (its a lot of work isn't it) I notice your car has cycleguards on. I have a pair along with a pair of westfield brackets that came cut in half for some reason ( i have been unable to fathom out yet) and i have no idea how to fit them. Did you use westfield brackets or an alternative. I read somewhere that tiger brackets are good, any ideas. Incidently what part of the north east are you from, I'm from south shields, regards dd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_prelit now westfield_bumble Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Hi DD, located chester-le-street your welcome to pop over anytime to have a look. I used the westfield brackets but from memory i had to adapt them. mines currently not running. Refreshed engine ready to start (very long story) not been out the garage in 3 years. maybe later this year fingers crossed.Will dig through my paperwork and pop out and take a look and try and get a couple of pics. Can recomend a guy down thirsk for tuning and hes very reasonable too. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty diamond Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Hi scott, thanks for the invite. Hope to have my car on the road in the next few weeks, busy sorting out some electrical faults. Will be in touch later and take a drive across, regards dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_prelit now westfield_bumble Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 The brackets i have are bolted to the bottom bolt of the break caliper and through the top ball joint. they were originally a very heavy 2 piece set up. Absolute pain to fit half a turn on the spanner if u were lucky. Part no.5585002 LH mtg brkt mk3 epx and part no.5585003 RH mtg brkt mk3 epx They were £33.60 + vat each back in 2007. cant get a very good picture as cant get any lock on the steering in garage at mo Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty diamond Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi Scott, thanks for the info, i'll check it out when i get home. Be back in touch later, regards dd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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