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Incorrectly registered Kit-Cars


nikpro

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It is also my understanding that misrepresentation issues relating to the purchase of motor vehicles can be even more complex, given the challenges associated with restoring each party to their pre-contract situation.

I was unfortunate enough to be taken to Court for misrepresentation after selling a Ducati Motorcycle; the facts were as follows:

In the advert in MCN I stated the Cam belts had recently been changed by a main dealer.

I had a receipt from the Dealer showing this work had been done. (A copy was given to the purchaser)

The new owner rang the dealer and they confirmed this service had been carried out.

Three months later I was taken to court because the cam belt failed and an expert witness for the Plaintiff (who was also his friend) stated that in his opinion the cam belts had never been changed.

(I suspect the new owner had tried to do a service and messed it up!)

The judge ruled I had made an innocent misrepresentation in the advert as, in his opinion the cam belt s hadn't been changed. He also said the @sold as seen' contract was an unfair contract.

I had to give the seller £5,000 back and received a motorcycle back with a knackered cylinder head!

I sought further legal advice about taking the Dealer to Court but was told by a specialist the next Judge could say 'In his opinion the Dealer had changed the cam belts'

This would leave me stuck in the middle as you can not question the Opinion of a Judge!

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Hi guys, while I realise this is a very late reply I found this thread most helpful about six months ago, Therefore I thought I'd weigh in with my resent experience. I bought my first and only We

What a great success story and even better to hear common sense being applied at DVLA given some of the challenges with SVA etc! Thanks for updating the thread @Young knocker 1992

jeff oakley

There are many cars out there which were described in various ways. Ford based special was one that cropped up regularly. Others are where they have called it a "Dave Jones special" many locosts have some very imaginative descriptions for example.

I would have though so long as there is no attempt to describe a vehicle in a way that makes it something it is not then a V5 which is legal with a provinance will be fine to buy and own. The reality is it will always devalue the car in many ways to be described as something other than a westfield.

Just one point to add, there is a retired DVLA man called PAul Jepson who is an expert on dealing with this sort of problem. He nows uses this expertise to help filling in forms for IVA and registering the car. He is on the web and advertises in the kit car magazines. Many who have used him feel he offers good value and has cleared upmany erors on log books etc.

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Wile E. Coyote
I was unfortunate enough to be taken to Court for misrepresentation after selling a Ducati Motorcycle; the facts were as follows:

In the advert in MCN I stated the Cam belts had recently been changed by a main dealer.

I had a receipt from the Dealer showing this work had been done. (A copy was given to the purchaser)

The new owner rang the dealer and they confirmed this service had been carried out.

Three months later I was taken to court because the cam belt failed and an expert witness for the Plaintiff (who was also his friend) stated that in his opinion the cam belts had never been changed.

(I suspect the new owner had tried to do a service and messed it up!)

The judge ruled I had made an innocent misrepresentation in the advert as, in his opinion the cam belt s hadn't been changed. He also said the @sold as seen' contract was an unfair contract.

I had to give the seller £5,500 back and received a motorcycle back with a knackered cylinder head!

I sought further legal advice about taking the Dealer to Court but was told by a specialist the next Judge could say 'In his opinion the Dealer had changed the cam belts'

This would leave me stuck in the middle as you can not question the Opinion of a Judge!

One can however, in most cases, appeal...

Surprised at that outcome though: rather looked like things were stacked in your favour.

Pretty sure I have seen case examples - don't have them bookmarked - that suggest that where it is impossible to restore the parties to their pre-contractual position the right to rescind the contract is lost.  So even more surprised you ended up having to take that bike back!

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There are many cars out there which were described in various ways. Ford based special was one that cropped up regularly. Others are where they have called it a "Dave Jones special" many locosts have some very imaginative descriptions for example.

Jeff,

there isn't a problem with this though. If the Kit Builder has also constructed the Chassis from Scratch he can call it whatever he wants. (Jeff Oakley Special)

Trouble is a Westfield is a recognised manufacturer and if it's a Westfield Chassis it has to be described as a Westfield.

Mr Jepson is very good.  :t-up:

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You may appeal against a judgment in the small claims track only if the court made a mistake in law or there was a serious irregularity in the proceedings.

I did have the option to pay for a full repair which was almost as expensive - I took the bike back and fixed it myself.

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SootySport

The way I see it it is the SVA inspector and the Kit Car builder together come up with a name for the car and this is forwarded to the the DVLA. Whatever the car is called in make and model boxes is what is transferred to the V5. Once the V5 is issued the make and model cannot be changed--forever.  You can change the reg. no. and engine no.  as many times as you like.

If the car is volume produced then it would be the dealers representative who fills in the first registration form and forwards it to the DVLA and they do get them wrong quite often. A couple of instances noted on the Cliosport forum where a 2.0litre 172 Clio was registered as a 1.2Litre car, good for the owner as he only had to pay RFL for 1.2.

The only problem I can see is when you come to sell the car but as long as you don't misrepresent the description of the car and state that the V5 was incorrect, you are all above board.

Nik Pros experience is not anything to do with V5 and the 1st. registration process.

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Mark (smokey mow)

Correction of registration document

14.—(1) Where the keeper of a vehicle believes that the particulars in the registration document issued in respect of that vehicle are, or have become, inaccurate, he shall forthwith notify the Secretary of State of the inaccuracy.

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SootySport

Must be your bedtime Mark,   a 1.2litre is a couple off emmisions groups less the the 2.0litre therefore less tax.

It was also pointed out on the forum the owner of said 1.2L car had queried this anomaly with the DVLA and they say it cannot be changed.  I can't see that a letter to the Secretary of state would be dealt with, far more important things on their agenda I would have thought.   Who is he anyway?

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Mark (smokey mow)
Must be your bedtime Mark,   a 1.2litre is a couple off emmisions groups less the the 2.0litre therefore less tax.

Not mine Bernie :D please re-read.  

The emmissions data is taken from the type approval number for the vehicle which would be different between a 1.2 or 2.0L cars.  Thus even if the dealer wrote the wrong engine size on the V55 the emissions and RFL would still be correct for the car.  

The secretary of state in the quoted context would be the DVLA.

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SootySport
I see what you mean but the facts were, the 1.2 owner was paying less RFL so someone in the V5 application process got it completely wrong.  It has happened on other cars as well.
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I see what you mean but the facts were, the 1.2 owner was paying less RFL so someone in the V5 application process got it completely wrong.  It has happened on other cars as well.

..........But if you, as the owner, know it's wrong then you are comitting an offence under the Road Vehicles Registration and Licensing Regs - this, in itself, has a power of arrest.

Further to that - if you have also obtained cheaper road fund licence because of the mistake - and you know it's a mistake you commit fraud.

The Legislation clearly states that the onus is on the owner - not anybody else - don't go whinging and whining if you get caught out.

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blue ass fly

Just gone through it with a 6 month old astra deisel

Bought from a main dealer as an ecoflex 119g(£30 per year tax) and after 6 months a reminder came through for £90

Called the dealer and they said that it was the higher emission car (124g) i had bought and there was nothing they would do-even though it stated ecoflex on the receipt !

Had to get in touch with gm uk who sent me a letter confirming that it is an ecoflex and the emissions were 119g

Dvla then re-issued the v5 and refunded my duty paid

I must say though that gm had it down as 119g and ALL the dealers had it down as 124g.i had the feeling that gm customer services would have written anything ide have asked !

Apparently this happens alot

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is the inference that a car whilst being sold as a Westfield from a SDV, could in fact be any old kit car that just happens to look like a Westfiled, and therefore reducing it's true value?

I suppose the bottom line being, as long as a buyer is happy with what he sees and the price he pays appropriate the V5 registration could be a moot point (?)

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Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

Not just that though; it makes any legitimate changes that bit more complicated.

For example, is the new engine on the V5? Is it now a motorbike engined Sierra? What about MOT time if you happen to take it to a particularly jobs worth inspector. Will the understanding "of course it's covered" words of your insurance broker be replaced with a "sorry you're not covered" from your insurance company if the s**t ever hit the fan.

There's just so many what if's built into the equation, they really make it a gamble. As ever though, it's up to the individual to decide on the level of risk they're comfortable with.

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