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Incorrectly registered Kit-Cars


nikpro

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In the last month there have been three topics that have involved vehicles with anomalies on the V5 documents – I thought it would be a good time to start an FAQ thread for members to post their knowledge/experience on the subject rather than diverting the other threads into a discussion on this.

It is an important area for anyone considering purchasing a Westfield.

The law surrounding Registrations as I understand it:

(1) It is an Offence to have an incorrectly registered vehicle on the road – fact

(2) Any Westfield sold as a Westfield should have Westfield on the V5 Document – if it hasn’t then it isn’t properly registered and the owner commits the offence every time the vehicle is used on the road.

(3) Any Kit-car registered after (Not exactly sure when it was introduced) will require an SVA test or more latterly an IVA test.

The problem arises when the Westfield is still described as the Donor Vehicle on the V5 document; there are several reasons for this:

(1) Before the SVA test was introduced the newly built Kit Car required just an MOT for its road worthiness. The vehicle would then be taken to the local Registrations Office, it would be inspected by someone and they would agree whether the vehicle was to be registered on the Donor Registration (was worked out on a points system of major components used & the Chassis and Body had to be NEW from the Kit Manufacturer) or receive a ‘Q’ Plate.

(2) Many ‘Kit-Cars’ of the time were just re-bodies on VW Beetle floor pans – these could legitimately be registered at the time as re-bodied VW Beetles. (Latterly MR2’s are common for Ferrari Replica’s and these can still be legitimately registered as re-bodies and do not require SVA).

Unfortunately in the Past (Pre strict emissions regs) a ‘Q’ plate carried a real stigma and was to be avoided as much as possible. There were numerous unscrupulous builders who saw the loop hole of a re-body being able to retain the registration and declared their Kit-car as just a re-body of the Donor.

Worse still; some owners never took their vehicle/had their vehicle inspected and just screwed on the Donor Reg. Plates; especially if the car looked similar to the donor.

Contrary to popular belief there was no ‘regional’ differences in DVLA Offices as to how the vehicle was described – if the car was presented as a Kit-Car with a new Chassis/Body and it received a registration; whether a ‘Q’ plate or donor plate it was described as the Kit Car Manufacturer on the V5 document. (eg Westfield/DAX/Southern Roadcraft etc)

The problem arose again with the Kit Builders who desperately didn’t want a ‘Q’ plate and presented the vehicle without the full truth being told about its origins and then it was described quite frequently by the DVLA as a ‘special’ or something similar – so the V5 might read ‘Ford Escort Special.’

Some time ago the DVLA realised what a mess all this was and held a lengthy amnesty against incorrectly registered Kit-cars. If the owner could prove that the car had been built and used prior to SVA and their records showed that the vehicle had been presented for inspection at the time it was ‘put on the road’ the Registration Document was altered to correctly show the Manufacturer of the Kit and Model.

The Only cars that ‘slipped through the net’ were:

(1) Vehicles where the owner couldn’t be bothered to get it correctly registered.

(2) Owners didn't realise it was incorrectly Registered (Had probably bought the car in inoccence of the original builder.)

(3) Owners knew it had never been presented for inspection and the donor plates had just been swapped over to the new car (This was always illegal) and were fearful of being asked to take an SVA test!

So the situation is this:

If the V5 of the car you are buying does not say it’s a Westfield and it quite clearly is then it is not correctly registered.

At the time you sell the car you need to be very,very careful in how you describe it so you don’t commit a civil taunt of misrepresentation:

(1) If the V5 states it’s a Ford Cortina then the description must state it is a Ford Cortina for sale because that is what it is.

(2) If it has a Westfield Chassis then the description must also state this.

The Advert would then read:

Ford Cortina for sale that has been re-chassed with a Westfield Chassis and Bodywork etc…….

or

Worse still - you would have to declare it as incorrectly registered.

As you can see – the advert will de-value the car considerable especially when there are so many correctly registered Westfields in the Market Place at very good prices!

There are three types of Misrepresentation:

(1) Dishonest

(2) Negligent

(3) Innocent

If the vehicle has not been correctly described in the advert then the vendor has misrepresented it; the purchaser can rescind the contract at any time (It does not matter if the misrepresentation is dishonest/negligent or innocent) – you could be given back a really grubby car 12 months later and have to give him his money back!

‘Sold as Seen’ has no meaning whatsoever and is deemed as an unfair contract in English Law.

You would be dealing with a Judge who will only be interested in facts and only has to consider the ‘balance of probabilities’ in favour of the Plaintiff; The Log book shows that it is not a Westfield, if you describe it as a Westfield and not what is on the log book you are on very sticky ground and I know which side of the table I would like to sit on!

Anyway……………discuss!

NB - The above is My Opinion only and should not be seen as fact - it is an opinion gained from research and personal experience dealing with the Courts and being 'involved' with Kit-Cars for over 20 years.

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Hi guys, while I realise this is a very late reply I found this thread most helpful about six months ago, Therefore I thought I'd weigh in with my resent experience. I bought my first and only We

What a great success story and even better to hear common sense being applied at DVLA given some of the challenges with SVA etc! Thanks for updating the thread @Young knocker 1992

Martin Keene
SVA was introduced on 1st January 1998. With buyers of kits bought before that date having a two year window, to the 31st December 1999, to finish them and go through a watered down SVA.
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This is the legislation covering the Registartion:

The Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002 create the rules for registration and licensing of vehicles.

• Regulation 16 covers the notification of an alteration to a vehicle.

Note that any application, notification, notice, information, particulars, appeal, declaration or other document or thing given or made in pursuance of these Regulations shall, except where it is expressly provided otherwise, be in writing.

Notification of change of details

16(1) Where any alteration is made to a vehicle so as to make any of the particulars set out in the registration document incorrect, the registered keeper shall deliver to the Secretary of State -

(a) notification of the alteration;

(b) except where the registration document has been or may have been lost, stolen or destroyed, the registration document.

16(1A) Where the registration document has been, or may have been, lost, stolen or destroyed, notification under paragraph (1) shall be accompanied by an application for the issue of a new registration document and, except where the registration document fee exemption applies, by a fee.

16(2) If the alteration makes any of the particulars shown on the vehicle licence or nil licence incorrect, the registered keeper shall also deliver to the Secretary of State the appropriate licence, unless it is lost, stolen or destroyed.

16(3) The Secretary of State may require the registered keeper to furnish such evidence as he may reasonably require to show that the alteration has taken place.

16(4) On receiving notification under this regulation the Secretary of State shall, subject to regulation 15, if he is satisfied that the vehicle has been altered in the way notified to him, -

(a) record the alteration in the register;

(b) send to the registered keeper a new registration document showing the correct particulars; and

© in a case falling within paragraph (2), issue to the registered keeper a new vehicle licence or nil licence showing the correct particulars.

and when you know the particulars are not correct:

Correction of registration document

14.—(1) Where the keeper of a vehicle believes that the particulars in the registration document issued in respect of that vehicle are, or have become, inaccurate, he shall forthwith notify the Secretary of State of the inaccuracy.

(2) Notification under paragraph (1) shall be accompanied by the registration document, unless it has been, or may have been, lost stolen or destroyed.

(3) Where the Secretary of State believes that the particulars in the registration document issued in respect of a vehicle are inaccurate—

(a)if the document has not been sent to him in accordance with paragraph (2), he may require the registered keeper of the vehicle to send it to him;.

(b)whether or not he has received the document, he may correct the particulars in the register; and.

©after correcting the particulars he shall, unless he has not received the registration document as required by paragraph (2) and subject to regulation 15, send a registration document containing the correct particulars to the registered keeper..

N.B. Comitting any of the above Offences carries a Power of Arrest/Seizure of vehicle.

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Mark Stanton

Very good thanks

Can you confirm where something is noted as a Ford Westfield or Escort Westfield for example - is it still illegal if the Westfield name is used for registration alongside a.n. other manufacturer or marque ???

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Very good thanks

Can you confirm where something is noted as a Ford Westfield or Escort Westfield for example - is it still illegal if the Westfield name is used for registration alongside a.n. other manufacturer or marque ???

Mark,

the posts are only my Opinion and interpretation of the legislation - I was hoping for a debate where others with different views can discuss the matter.

IMO if it has 'Westfield' in the Desc. it's OK  :t-up:

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Mark Stanton

Debate time then  :D  :D cos it confuses me  :durr:  ??? easy to do at times  :D

QUOTE
IMO if it has 'Westfield' in the Desc. it's OK

I wouldn't disagree or agree  :blush:  :blush: using Ford and Escort as an example

However - would the legal argument be that Ford never manufactured or registered a Westfield or Westfield never manufactured an Escort ??? and as the Westfield is not based on an Escort chassis how can it be an Escort in any way ???

Just seems to be a grey area loophole that an insurance company could utilise if required ???

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IMO if it has 'Westfield' in the Desc. it's OK

I wouldn't disagree or agree  :blush:  :blush: using Ford and Escort as an example

However - would the legal argument be that Ford never manufactured or registered a Westfield or Westfield never manufactured an Escort ??? and as the Westfield is not based on an Escort chassis how can it be an Escort in any way ???

Just seems to be a grey area loophole that an insurance company could utilise if required ???

If it states a 'Ford Westfield' or an 'escort Westfield' I believe it could be accurately described because:

(1) It is a Westfield

(2) it contains parts from a Ford or Escort

It is the word 'Westfield' that is important IMO.

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Mark Stanton
I fully understand your point ........... just not sure it would stand if any component was not from one vehicle then it could be a cortina escort mx5 westfield or who defines what percentage from any one vehicle  ???  ???  ???
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I fully understand your point ........... just not sure it would stand if any component was not from one vehicle then it could be a cortina escort mx5 westfield or who defines what percentage from any one vehicle  ???  ???  ???

Mark,

with current registrations this isn't a problem - it will or should definately say just 'WESTFIELD' on the V5 doccument under make and nothing else.

It's before SVA the problem lies but again it should just say 'WESTFIELD', however some don't.

From recollection (When I registered my Cobra) you filled out a form that explained where the major components came from - Chassis/Body/Engine/Gearbox/Axles etc. each was awarded points from a table and the inspector inspected those components and chassis no. etc.

At the top of the Form you wrote in the make/model - unfortunately some people weren't fully truthfull with this at the time of registering or elaborated in the hope to add value to their car.

For example; many Cobra manufacturers offered a Jaguar based kit or a granada based kit - the jaguar was more expensive/desirable so some people may have put Cobretti Jaguar on the make/description and it would have been registered as such.

Whether it is illegal is down to a Court to decide but if it has the name 'WESTFIELD xxxx' in the model line on the V5 I think you would be OK.   ???

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Mark Stanton

I can fully see your point with the Cobra scenario as major chassis (and other) components were used and thus could be interpreted as a rebodying / restyling of the jaguar / granada - in a similar way to why we see so many Austin 7 specials  :D  :D  :)

Still to be convinced that a Westfield should have anything other or in addition to Westfield where none of the chassis is utilised.

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I can fully see your point with the Cobra scenario as major chassis (and other) components were used and thus could be interpreted as a rebodying / restyling of the jaguar / granada - in a similar way to why we see so many Austin 7 specials  <!--emo&:D  :D  :)

Still to be convinced that a Westfield should have anything other or in addition to Westfield where none of the chassis is utilised.

The answer is Mark:

It Shouldn't have anything other than Westfield.

but........

The Old registration form was completed by the Kit car Builder and it was down to them to write what the make was at the top of the Registaration Form - for some reason they may have written 'WESTFIELD xxxx'.

This was then transferred directly to the V5 by some one in DVLA who probably doesn't know a Robin Reliant from a Bentley.

If 'Westfield' does not appear in the Make line you are incorrectly registered IMO and are comitting one of the Offences shown in my second post.

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Mark Stanton
those horrible grey areas of form filling    :(  :(
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Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary
This was then transferred directly to the V5 by some one in DVLA who probably doesn't know a Robin Reliant from a Bentley.

How true, as petrol heads we often forget how little interest and knowledge a huge percentage of the population have. Don't for get that to many that car over their is just a red one, and although names like Ford, Volkswagon etc may be familiar if prompted, many would need to read the badge to tell them apart.

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Wile E. Coyote
At the time you sell the car you need to be very,very careful in how you describe it so you don’t commit a civil taunt of misrepresentation:

(1) If the V5 states it’s a Ford Cortina then the description must state it is a Ford Cortina for sale because that is what it is.

(2) If it has a Westfield Chassis then the description must also state this.

The Advert would then read:

Ford Cortina for sale that has been re-chassed with a Westfield Chassis and Bodywork etc…….

or

Worse still - you would have to declare it as incorrectly registered.

As you can see – the advert will de-value the car considerable especially when there are so many correctly registered Westfields in the Market Place at very good prices!

There are three types of Misrepresentation:

(1) Dishonest

(2) Negligent

(3) Innocent

If the vehicle has not been correctly described in the advert then the vendor has misrepresented it; the purchaser can rescind the contract at any time (It does not matter if the misrepresentation is dishonest/negligent or innocent) – you could be given back a really grubby car 12 months later and have to give him his money back!

‘Sold as Seen’ has no meaning whatsoever and is deemed as an unfair contract in English Law.

You would be dealing with a Judge who will only be interested in facts and only has to consider the ‘balance of probabilities’ in favour of the Plaintiff; The Log book shows that it is not a Westfield, if you describe it as a Westfield and not what is on the log book you are on very sticky ground and I know which side of the table I would like to sit on!

Anyway……………discuss!

I must confess, I am less than convinced that it would be so clear cut.

A reasonable person would expect the purchaser to examine the most relevant legal documentation relating to the transaction  (the V5) prior to signing it, and query any discrepancy between that and whatever they thought they were buying.

A seller could I suspect argue that they had then made the purchaser fully aware of the situation (correcting any early erroneous statements) at that time but that a decision to proceed with the transaction had been made - i.e. with the contract entered into on the basis of accurate information?

It is also my understanding that misrepresentation issues relating to the purchase of motor vehicles can be even more complex, given the challenges associated with restoring each party to their pre-contract situation.

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