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Guide to wishbone bushes


Frosty

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Wow, seven years! That flew by.

 

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@Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary   - the same (metalastic bush in outer rear lower wishbone eyelet) is in the case of Westfield with Sierra upright ? not only with Mazda ? I think so.. Did not know that, thanks for pointing this out! 

With metalastic bush one need to tighten the nut on that bush with car sitting on floor, weighted with driver , right ? 

I have now nylon (two parts - hat type) bushes in that places, not sure if should I change it to metalastic now, or wait until there will be some play in the nylon bushes... For sure a place to check more frequently. 
 

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Replace now.

 

Given that the car is tracked a lot, failure at speed on track doesn’t really bear thinking about...

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Oh, winter seems to short for all the services planned for Westfield :) 

 

Two things regardig  bushes I am thinking of :

1. The original (Westfield) ones are all 7/16" crush tube internal diameter (for suspension, for differential is 12mm as I read) . 7/16" It is approx 11,1mm. I wonder if it will be ok to use a bush with internal diameter tube  12mm. As the bolt is not the pivot axle , (quote the first post in this FAQ topic  "When force is placed on the wishbone and it is required to pivot up and down, the rubber between the sleeves is what permits this movement" . It seems to be ok then, but not sure If anyone has used 12mm crush tube. There might be smaller amount of rubber beetwen crush tube and sidewall ob. bush, but maybe it is not so important, just wonder.

I have found that Poweflex has 12mm internal diameter

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/i/product_images/99-116 WEB.pdf

https://www.powerflex.co.uk/product-details/Universal+Kit+Car+Bush+For+Westfield/2103.html

And Westfield Parts sell Powerflex, so semms to be ok to use 12mm.

 

2. The crush tube sidewall thickness. It looks like the only part of bushes that is connecting wishbones to chassis (its brackets) are sidewalls of tubes tightened to bracket . Small area rather. I saw on some of my Westfield brackets impressions caused by those tubes. I think the more sidewall thicknes would be the better.

Has anyone compared diferent sourced bushes (Rallydesign, Westfield = Powerflex, Plays Kool ) regarding thicknes of wall of crush tubes in those  ? It seems from the foto , that Wsestfield/Powerflex has the thickest sidewall , but it is only picture, maybe someone had all those in hands and can tell if there is a difference ?

I had in hands RallyDesign yellow ones and that what I took from my car - black hat type, propably former Westfield Nylon ora PlaysKool. Crushtubes in both are similar. Did not had Powerflex :

https://parts.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=841&search=bush&description=true

On the picture its crush tube is really thick . This are most expensive ones, but maybe worth it assuming it can save the chassis brackets ?

 

I am in hurry because of possibility to get 20% off in Westfield Parst on Black Friday, I wonder if not to order a set for complete car and change all bushes during winter , set the geometry and not going back to this subcjest any more (well … for a some longer period of time :) ) . 

Not sure if assembling of this type (one part of nylon tube) is so easy as two-parts type (hat type) that PlasKool and RD sells.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Andrzej said:

The original (Westfield) ones are all 7/16" crush tube internal diameter (for suspension, for differential is 12mm as I read) . 7/16" It is approx 11,1mm.

 

For reference, the differential bushes are exactly the same bushes as used in the suspension, BUT, they are reamed out to 12mm at the factory.

 

The potential issue if the bushes are too "slack" on the bolts would be repeatability in aligning the suspension up in the correct places, as there's the possibility for tiny misalignments to start building up. Plus I always have a worry in these circumstances, that in theory, the crush tube might, (unlikely I know), move ever so slightly over time, in the mount.

 

Personally, I'd just rather have it right, where possible, on suspension components.

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Yes, me to - I also want to make all as right as possible, so minimize service-time for the car in driving season. Want to make what I can now, in winter when car sits in the garage , not driving. And make it right way.

So all that questions and thougts. And thank You again for Your patience with all explanations to a Westfield newbie ! :)

But - Powerflex Bushes has as in data above - 12mm internal diameter. And Westfield sells Powerflex.

( from Powerflex website : Bush Dimensions. Bush Diameter = 24mm, Length = 35mm. Sleeve Length = 39mm, Bolt Hole = 12mm. )

Maybe Westfield Parts ordered from Powerflex especialy made for them 7/16 tubes, different from those that Powerflex sells on their shop. In that case it is better because it can has thicker internal tube sidewall.

 

Differential bushes… that I think is another subcjet...

I have just taken differentia out from the car, to get it for inspection, sealing etc, to check driveshafts, instal trigger wheels on driveshafts for TC etc) .

And I looked at diff bushes. I wonder how on earth one can replace metalastic ones if there is a need for replacment in there ? I mean an acces is rather restricted :-/

I rememeber how hard it was to take metalastic bush from wisbone or rear diff suport arm. But this arm I could put on table, turn on which way I wanted  etc - easy access for different methods of taking bush out. Ended with hacksaw.

But in diff - all in raher small area fixed to chassis ? .

I have foud that one of my existing bushes in diff mounting can be easily pressed out by hand (lower right, left sits still) . Upper ones are changed by previous owner to nylon - hard one. If I press in somehow on chasis metalastic ones (again - that access!) instead of nylon , then how I take it out when there is a need in future. that worries me.

So - would be bad idea to left those nylons as they are? or there is some reason that one need to put only metalastic in those places ?

The diff bushes I think has hard work to do - heat, movements (a lot of focre going through diff, and it weight around 30 kg (!) , so on every bump it jumps ) , some oil if not freshly sealed … Bushes might need to be replaced frequently - easier with nylon than metalastic (assuming that I will succeed wit placing them in).

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  • 4 weeks later...

A quick update - differences in crush tube sidewall thickness: matalastic, hat type nylon (rallydesign yelllow, Black I AM not sure which one - taken  from wishbone from my car propably old Westfield type or maybe Black rallydesign? And the thickest - Powerflex for Westfield from Westfield parts shop. I think this is important because this is the only place where the tube is connected to wishbone bracket. IT should be as thick as possibile to keep brackets on good shape and keep tube not rotating. 

IMG_20191219_211715749.jpg

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  • 8 months later...

I also need to change at least one of my rear wishbone bushes and agree that the westfield polybush with thicker crush tube seems the best idea. I've inherited a set of them from the previous owner, so it would also be convenient. It's for track day use so I'm happy to be corrected if its not thought to be up to the job?

 

What's the best way of getting out the old bush that's plastic with shoulders on it?

 

I can see that the westfield polybush has some sort of pattern inside the poly tube where it mates against the crush tube, so I guess you don't ream that out after fitting the poly tube first. I'm assuming the fit between the polybush crush tube and poly are the correct fit. They move very smoothly together.  Do I need to ream out the wishbone to make a perfect fit so that the poly doesn't grip tighter on the crush tube.

 

Dull question coming up. what on earth does a reamer look like, how easy is it use, how much are they and where do I get one from of the right size? 

 

Sorry about the number of questions above.

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The wishbone should be free enough to drop down under its own weight. If the poly bush sleeve is too tight and distorted then the wishbone Won’t swing down by gravity alone.   
This is a reamer and they are tapered up to the quoted size -  

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=reamer&safe=strict&client=safari&channel=iphone_bm&prmd=isvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-j4u4gOfrAhUmTBUIHbT4DO8Q_AUoAXoECA8QAQ&biw=320&bih=454&dpr=2#imgrc=xq8rbyWCUYeYxM
Grease  the metal sleeve To prevent corrosion and allow free movement.  
Hope got the gist of what is required.

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I think I’ll need a straight reamer of approx 24mm. Perhaps an expanding one would be best to find to right diameter. 

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10 hours ago, harrypotter said:

So I ream out the wishbone enough to accept the poly bush without pinching the crush tube? 

Yes.   It is time consuming to do all of them as you need to ream out a fraction at a time and test fit a nylon bush each time, for a snug fit.  Don’t think you’ll find an exact size reamer for the job, use the closest tapered version available and shave a little at a time.

When all done, torque up the bolts to 25ft lbs.   you don’t have to have the weight of the car on the ground. 

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Update on fitting Westfield powerflex wishbone bushes.

 

One of my wishbone bushes was showing signs of wear and needed replacement. Once dismantled it seemed that the play was caused by water getting into the crush tube, the tube rotating around the bolt and the resultant rust making everything wear even more. I managed to borrow an adjustable reamer that went up to the perfect fit of nearly 24mm. Each time I increased the size of the reamer from it's initial start size, I had to clean out the hole and test fit both parts of the bush. I found that in the end if I could nearly completely push the crush tube in by hand it was the near perfect fit. I tested it by placing the crush tube in the vice and letting the wishbone lower under its own weight.

 

I hope this helps any one trying this for themselves. Be warned it takes time. You need the right reamer. you need patience. Good luck.   

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Cleaning the wishbone eyelet(s) out can also be done with a flap wheel mounted in a drill, it’s slower work, and frequent test fits are needed, as obviously the amount of cut is less precise but it works well, otherwise.


That said, if the crush tube is able to rotate when bolted up tight, it suggests either the crush tube is fractionally too short, or some other part of the assembly is too big, the Bush itself, for instance.

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Funnily enough I did buy a small flap wheel after trying coarse wet and dry on a shaft in a drill. As I then found the correct  reamer I stuck to that. 
 

I agree about the crush tube length, but the Westfield poly bush is designed with a longer crush tube. I do wonder if the rust had eaten away at the bolt and it was just that causing the loose fit. 
 

I should have mentioned that I’ve bought new bolts and the fit is better than the existing ones. I will also smear with copper grease when fitting them, unless tells me otherwise. 

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