John Dolan - Wirral & North Wales AO Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 A paint line on nuts and bolts serves two purposes. First, apply after torquing the bolt, confirms that you have tightened it. Second, will show if the bolt is coming loose with just a visual inspection. Also handy for IVA inspection, looks a better job and hopefully impresses the inspector. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Andrzej said: Is it "normal" in Westfield construction that some bolts/nuts loosen when driving ? I have to check every one of them after every trackday ? Front suspension checked and it is tight so far. But in rear few loose bolts / nuts . Strange. The nuts are nyloc type of course. Maybe partialy the cause was oil mist from differential (not sure where in diff the leak is , but for sure it is from diff) , so : little oil plus vibrations... I know I have to change to new nuts. The bolts to diff I used some blue thread glue , just in case. Simple answer would be no - however, as always the mechanics of fixed and moving parts adds a little 'magic' that can make the tightest loose and the loosest tight! As mentioned above, torque break paint is a good visual and thread lock will help BUT the best way to prevent loosening (and to identify it if it is happening) is to positively lock the nut using a mechanical lock - in all cases ensuring that the assembled nut and bolt are 'in safety' by having at least 2 clear threads showing outside the nut: Tb Washer Castle Nut and Split pin Jam/Lock Nut Wire locking Of these, number 3 is the easiest if you have enough thread and space to operate, followed by number 1 the tab washer. Number 2 requires the bolt to be drilled once the nut is torqued correctly and hence can lead to increased consumption of bolts if items are frequently removed/reassembled. Number 4 is the preferred method for critical parts that have frequent removal or are difficult to check. If you are using the car on track mainly and driving hard then I'd want some form of mechanical locking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chris Broster - Bristol & Bath AO said: Of these, number 3 is the easiest if you have enough thread and space to operate, followed by number 1 the tab washer. Personally I wouldn't even count no 3 in a real world list of mechanically secured fasteners - seen them creep loose too often for that. Lock tabs, split pins and lock wiring still out weigh every other method in my mind. Vibration and heat cycling can be harsh bed fellows when it comes to fasters creeping under load, but there are other elements too; for instance if the surface the fasteners head bears down on, isn't perfectly flush and perpendicular to the shank, the uneven surface it bears down on, can cause issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenP Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Also if you are using a tab washer the washer it's self must be prevented from turning. This can be done having a tab on it's inner diameter that fits in a slot on the bolt, a tab on the outer that can be bent around a fixed part or a double tab washer that works against 2 different nut as often found on brake mounting bolts. Some good examples here https://www.seastrom-mfg.com/washers_tab_key_notch.aspx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim RS Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I have been using Nord Lock washers this year for the first time and they seem to be working well in both vibration and high heat situations. Only draw back with them is that when you undo they over torque the fixing so use on aluminium threads is dubious. Main area of use has been turbo and drive shafts where I have had problems with security, my suspension is too new to have experienced loosening but may look to these if do. Other advantage with Nord Lock is that they are reusable whereas nylocs are advised to be used only once and some other locking systems are very difficult to get torqued accurately. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrzej Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Good points, the paint for visual check rather than checking with torque wrench seems like a god practice. The other solutions also worth trying out depending on bolted elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stagnite Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Excellent description of how bushes work. Does that mean that a squeaky road car rubber bush is caused by the rubber separating from either the crush tube or outer casing? a description of a rose type bush will be good. Thank you for your time creating this useful article. Neville Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrzej Posted November 4, 2019 Share Posted November 4, 2019 @Snags , thank You for the Nord Lock suggestion. I have to find it and try too, yesterday I discovered loose driveshaft nuts (!) and loose (almost full out) screw to quick shift adapter to MT75 (the first with nyloc, second with spring-washers) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 So, if I wanted to replace my bushes because at least one of my wishbones is showing front-back movement, are these the ones? https://parts.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=899 And are they going to be slightly more interesting to fit that the ones that were supplied with my kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Yes but the two bushes in the foreground are your standard metalastic versions. You need these-- https://parts.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=841 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootySport Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 On 23/10/2019 at 08:15, Stagnite said: Excellent description of how bushes work. Does that mean that a squeaky road car rubber bush is caused by the rubber separating from either the crush tube or outer casing? a description of a rose type bush will be good. Thank you for your time creating this useful article. Neville The squeak could be caused by rubber seperating or seized bolt going through the bush, or the bolt turning when the wishbone moves. Copper grrease prevents this when fitting them in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 No, the original post is correct If replacing with Polybushes, you must use the two metalstic bushes shown in the package; they fit on the Outer, lower rear suspension arm eyelets, opposite the Rose joints. Without them, the more solid Powerflex bushes would simply jam up as soon as you started adjusting the Rose joints beyond the poly bushes movement range. (Used to be the same with the old Nylon bushes too, you had to retain two metalastic bushes there, as well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 How does that translate to the Mazda set up which doesn't have the single rose joint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 I would be very wary of putting anything but metalastics in those two lower end fittings, as when you screw them in/out to set the toe, I'd suspect the Westfield poly bushes might bind. (I've fitted a set to the Honda car, but am yet to road test them. Statically on the bench though, there seems very little "give"). I would certainly speak to the factory before ordering, to see what the score is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dommo Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Yep, that's beginning to make sense in my head. From memory, I don't think those two fittings were quite true which would give the bushes a harder time. Be interesting to revisit after, yikes, 7 years! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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