DavidC Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Right, So after my visit to the Factory I'm sold. Def gonna order a starter kit SEiW as soon as I get my degree result (assuming it's what I need ). I'm really struggling on choosing an engine tho. I'm really keen on the VX XE 2.0, but not so keen on the cost of the extras it needs. The Crossflow seems to be a cheap option to get started with, what would you lot say? I wanna go for the Type 9 box, so I presume that rules out the Zetec? or does it? Basically, I'm gonna be on a tight budget, BUT I wanna build a kit rather than buy a second hand car. If I get a X-flow engine, what extras will I need to get it running? Which carbs, and kind of ECU, bell housings etc etc. Similarly for the CVH (is the XR2 engine a CVH?) Cheers DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 I'd say bite the bullet and go for the Vx (well I would.......) The only "extras" you'll need would be a set of ARP rod bolts ('cos the standard Vx ones are made of chocolate) a bellhousing, and maybe a hydraulic clutch (I don't actually know if a cable clutch is an option with a Vx If it is, so much the better) assuming you get a second hand injected engine from an Astra/Cavalier, you should be able to bolt the whole thing into the Westfield, including the ECU. Or ditch the inlet stuff and bolt on a set of 45's for 170-180bhp. You'll be buying an inlet manifold and a set of 45's on top of the bellhousing etc, and you WILL need a couple of hours on the rollers to get it set up, but you'll be doing that on any car to which you fit Webber carbs. A Zetec will produce a little less horsepower than a Vx in a straight out (of the Mondeo/Escort)/straight in (to the Westfield) type installation, and will match power, upgrade for upgrade, until you get to about 220bhp, when the Vx will see it off quite comfortably. Finding a good x-flow may be difficult, and they can be as expensive as any other when they go wrong, with the exception that they have half the amount of valves as the other two engines. They'll produce about 130bhp, but that will see you having to buy a cam straight away, so we're into upgrades before you start. Then, to be sure it's strong, you really should fit forged pistons, 'cos the standard ones will disintegrate if you thrash it too much. You'll probably need to convert the head to unleaded too, unless you can find one that has been done already. Chances of that are fair, but it may take longer to source one than you might think. Fit a x-flow, and you'll end up changing it for a Zetec or a Vx when you want more power anyway, so you'll have bought two engines/bellhousings/engine mounts/clutches etc. Not the cheapest way in the long run, IMO, although you can sell the bits to fund the new engine. Type 9's will fit x-flows, Zetecs and Vx's, and is my first choice of gearbox, due to it's ease of upgradeability. It's a no brainer.......... Whatever you decide, ask the factory for a chassis with an MT75 gearbox tunnel. This will help you get whatever engine you fit waaaaaay back in the chassis, for better weight distribution. Check the distance from the front of the engine to the nose cone in this picure of my car, and this car, with the engine in the "standard" position (thanks Juan ) The only downside to the MT75 gearbox tunnel is it leaves you with a footwell space that is only about as wide as the footwell in an old narrow bodied car. If you fit overhung pedals though, you can put your foot under the clutch pedal on long motorway journeys. If you fit floor mounted pedals, you'll end up with your left leg drawn up towards you on long journeys. Thats how I drive the Green Meenie, and it's still comfortable enough. See if you can try both options at the factory, and you'll see what I mean. I have seen at least one MT75 tunnelled car with a dead pedal set into the tunnel for somewhere to put your left foot when it's doing nothing. I'm probably going to make enquiries about that myslef during the winter. I think it's a Plays-Kool thing, but I haven't asked them yet. Hope this lot helps............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu999 Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Blatman is right, go Vx or Zetec. Dont get me wrong the xflow is a darling little motor ( I have one in mine) but an upgrade at a later date will be more hassle/money than its worth if you want to upgrade. Its not only the cost issue, but finding out that the hole in the bonnet and the body you so lovingly cut for the carbs and exhaust no longer line up with your intended new motor would be most annoying. I dont think there is enough room to fit the standard inlet manifold and plenum chamber under the bonnet with the Vx engine though, but I am sure there is a version of the Zetec injection that will, I am sure there is someone out there in cyberspace with more info. At the moment, I am playing with making an intake system for a Vx using a 45 manifold from SBD and bolting a fabricated box to it to allow the use of the standard injection system. Unfortunately progress is slow as the sun is shining but I will keep you posted if it works. Another way is to buy a set of carbs, and use a distributor and electronic ignition off an 1800 mk2 Astra SRi (I think) which isnt linked to the engine management and bolts straight on the back of the 16v head. Obviously the timing curve isnt perfect, but it gets you on the road while you save for your throttle bodies! I have seen a few 16v motors using this set-up and seems to work fine. Good luck with which ever route you choose, let the fun begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 I thought the early c******m Vx 2.0l cars (not the HPC's or JPE's) used the bog standard Vx intake system. If it fits in a c******m, it should fit in a Westfield. I'll stand to be corrected on that though. Where's all them Blatchat lurkers when you need 'em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 We've completely forgotten about the 1.6 Vx engine too Similar in weight to a K series (which would also be a good, if expensive option), with decent power being produced by *just* bolting on a pair of 45's. SVA might be a bit of a problem, mind, 'cos it'll never pass with carbs. A look around the S B Developements web site should answer a lot of the Vx questions as well as raise a few more, no doubt! Hopefully, Nick M will be along in a minute to extoll the virtues of the "baby" Vx........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogman Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Just to throw a cat amongst and all that - why not go bike power and have something different??? A decent bike engine will be faster than a standard VX or Zetec straight from the box and it will have a nice 6 speed sequential box and scream to 12k RPM!!!! Also a decent bike engine will cost you about £1k complete with everything you need, you might wanna put different filters on and rejetting but that will cost £150 tops! Much more fun and very mad, more power and different!!! Oh oh I can feel my ears burning already!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Yupright Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Uh oh! Batton down the hatches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianm Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Dear all, from my experience the standard vx injectiopn system does not fit by a mile, the cav 2ltr 8v dist will work well, and in spite of my absolute love of thje Vx engine, if its simply down to budget, then go with Zetec. Never thought I'd here myself say that.AND, Oh b******* I've got to say it, the crossflow engine probably should not be considered for a conversion/ new installation. Oh ****, i didnt mean it like that, I just mean that there are now more modern, economic, efficient alternatives, I'll get mi coat. brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu999 Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 The standard intake definately wont fit. With the engine right back, the manifold fouls the cross brace (the one with the chassis number stamped on) and if you could get it to clear that, it then would be fighting for room with the steering column. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidC Posted May 31, 2002 Author Share Posted May 31, 2002 Hogman, that pretty little blue car in my avatar picture is a bike engined race car. In fact, imagine the XTR2 with just a single seat, that's what it is. I know how that engine drives and I could imagine it being a bit of a sod to drive on the roads. Tho that said it's not like a normal bike installation, it's got in-house injection and a very restricted air intake (reqd by the competition rules). I hadn't really given any consideration to bike engines to be honest, but I'll give it some thought. What engine would you recommend? Personally I'd be tempted by the blade pureliy cos I'm used to working with the CBR600 engine, and the blade is just the same bored out to 900cc. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damianc Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 AND.... yet another choice. The 1700 puma engine (duratec) seems to be a very tuneable implant with over 250 bhp possible. I'm not sure about the wide availability of tuning parts but this is definitely one of the up & coming engines for se7ens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshJackson Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 DavidC, is the car in your pic a formula student car? If it is, can you tell me how UH did this year? (Hertfordshire) Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEiGHT Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 I'd better keep out of this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidC Posted June 1, 2002 Author Share Posted June 1, 2002 Ash, Formula student hasn't taken place yet, it's on 1-3 July at Bruntingthorpe. We just got ours built well early this year. DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogman Posted June 1, 2002 Share Posted June 1, 2002 Now then David There are loads of options available to you with bike engines, some are easier installation than others, the normal ones that everyone use are.. Fireblade Blackbird Hayabusa ZX9 ZX12 Although saying that I opted for an nice R1 engine to be different and was offered one as a great deal! I wouldnt discount bike engines easily really, but depends on what you want the car for! I am only going to use mine on the roads (far tooooooo nice to risk it racing or on a track! ) but think that a bike engine will be alot more fun and manic but then I dont plan on sitting on motorways for hours with it! Hope it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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