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Spax shocks & springs


JamesD

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Errrrr what do you mean I don't take it on the track? - I do.......

As for whether I can tell the difference, I don't know, I haven't driven your car but surely it is the same with one's choice of gearbox, engine, suspension set-up, LSD or standard diff., tyres choice, IRS or live axle, tyre pressure, exhaust etc etc. The choice of all these adds to or detracts from the overall performance of the car.

Irrespective of whether I race my car formally in a race series or not, I like to know that the car will perform at it's very best whenever I ask it to so there seems little point in making poor choices in the specification. I built this particular car as I wanted a good spec. performance car so to have chosen parts that were not at the 'better' end of the performance spectrum would have spoilt the mix somewhat. Sure, I could have saved money in various places but the overall package is only as good as its weakest link. Not, as a matter of interest, am I saying that AVO's are a poor choice or indeed not as good as SPAX but you did say that SPAX were not rebuildable and I was simply jumping to their defence - mine are SPAX and they ARE rebuildable!

Those who have passengered in my car both on the road and on the track have all been of one accord  - it does hold the road remarkably well and still retains a good level of ride comfort.

As for engine choice ........

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Trax-spax are good and re-buildable  ;)

Avo's and Ledas are good and rebuildable  ;)  and all available from various suppliers - so it's a competitive market  ;)  Cat usually cheap and good service

The yellow spax things I had on my car originally in 1990 were sealed non-rebuildable units - and not available from anywhere but Westfield.

You pays yer money you takes yer choice. My choice was to change to Avo's  ;)

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I was assuming the factory standard Spax, and not the rebuildable Trax Spax. Also my assumption that you don't take your car on track was obviously well wide of the mark. Sorry. However, it would appear that the only basis for your assumption that the Trax Spax are better than the AVO's is, as far as I can see, that they cost more, and therefore must be better. Unless you have carried out back to back tests of AVO's and Trax Spax on your car (I'm not attempting to compare your car to my car.....Have you carried out back to back tests?), and arrived at a decision that the Spax's are head and shoulders better, then fair enough. That test would also mean you are well handy behind the wheel, as you are able to discern the differences. If that is the case. then you have my respect. If not, however, how are you able to claim that the Spax's are superior without any frame of reference?

I'm not having a go, BTW, just interested in your experiences. It may be that perhaps I'll go and buy Trax Spax next time round, especially if I have some empirical data that suggests they'll be an improvement over the AVO's. BUT, am I a good enough driver to notice?

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No, I haven't tried both types and in fairness, do not presume that I am a good enough driver to tell the difference anyway. My buying decision was based on the suspension system on the Westfield that I originally tested at Snetterton race track. Although there were other factors (the tyres for example!;) I was so impressed with the road-holding that I decided to have the same set-up on my own car in an attempt to re-create the experience when conditions allowed.

With regard to cost, this was conveniently hidden in the total package cost so I dread to think how much they were but Demon T charge about £170 each so they are not cheap! I just made up a shopping list and asked for a total price to discover how close to my agreed budget I could get.

With a bit of shaving off some items on my wish list, I reached a total price/spec. that coincided well with my requirements and the purse agreed with Stephenwolfess. Luckily, the shocks stayed in but the chrome, lockable boot lid and leather went out!

So, no empirical data just got as close to the car that impressed me so much as I could.

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No, I haven't tried both types and in fairness, do not presume that I am a good enough driver to tell the difference anyway.

Fair enough..........

My buying decision was based on the suspension system on the Westfield that I originally tested at Snetterton race track. Although there were other factors (the tyres for example...............I decided to have the same set-up on my own car in an attempt to re-create the experience when conditions allowed.

Are there major differences in the internal valving of the AVO's and Trax Spax? This is probably the most important question, 'cos it determines how the shock will perform. Same goes for internal oil spec. and what type of gas (if any) is used to keep the fluid under control?

Can I assume you bought the shocks as tetsted, but not the tyres? Do you have the same wheels/wheel sizes, discs, calipers, toe, camber, springs, ride height and suspension bushes as tested?  If so, then excellent. If not, then you have a different set up to the one tested, so how did you decide that the most important area of the handling was the shock absorbers? IME, especially on a track, one of the biggest differences, especially for sharp turn in (which is where/how most of us define handling), is to have the front wheels slightly toe out. On the road, this would make the car tramline to a greater or lesser degree, and would not give a nice, precise handling car on our rutted roads. Expensive shocks won't disguise this.

I'm sorry to keep banging on, but I think it is important, especially when your initial post dismissed AVO's out of hand. Always makes me ask why...............

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Are there major differences in the internal valving of the AVO's and Trax Spax? This is probably the most important question, 'cos it determines how the shock will perform. Same goes for internal oil spec. and what type of gas (if any) is used to keep the fluid under control?

Haven't got the faintest idea!

Can I assume you bought the shocks as tetsted, but not the tyres? Do you have the same wheels/wheel sizes, discs, calipers, toe, camber, springs, ride height and suspension bushes as tested?  If so, then excellent.

You assume correctly in all parameters with the possible exception of the bushes as I have no idea what bushes were fitted to the test car. This is why I have TOYO Proxes T1/S tyres on mine. I have exactly the same geometry as the test car with the exception of the ride height as mine is lower than theirs - I have fitted a Raceline cast wet sump to allow me to do this.

IME, especially on a track, one of the biggest differences, especially for sharp turn in (which is where/how most of us define handling), is to have the front wheels slightly toe out. On the road, this would make the car tramline to a greater or lesser degree, and would not give a nice, precise handling car on our rutted roads. Expensive shocks won't disguise this.

I have the same toe out as the test car (10 minutes) and can confirm that the turn in is very sharp and the tramlining on Sussex roads quite in evidence - no disguise here.

I'm sorry to keep banging on, but I think it is important, especially when your initial post dismissed AVO's out of hand. Always makes me ask why...............
Don't get spax, get AVO's. Much better, and similarly priced. Also AVO's are re-buildable if they burst, which the spax aren't so you'll never have to replace them.......

Dismissing SPAX?

What's all this AVO nonsense??

Spax Trax ..... fully adjustable and re-buildable mmmmmmm...... lovely (nice anodised gold colour too)

Actually I wasn't dismissing AVO's out of hand, just re-dressing the balance as from my own limited knowledge, I did know that my SPAX shocks were re-buildable.

One of the nice things about our type of cars is that no two are exactly alike - the test car was a different colour!

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I didn't dismsiss the Spax out of hand, I've tried 'em. The factory sepc "normal" Spax are widely accepted to be horrible. This is what I thought you had (I'm sure I mentioned that....), so I commented along with my experience.

I couldn't tell the difference between Trax Spax and AVO's when I tried them, so I bought the cheaper one, which had no negatives, as far as I could tell.

And we're both editing as we go too..............

Still, interesting, considered debate, with useful knowledge being brought to bear. Glad we cleared that up.

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Well, not quite sure where that leaves us but at least we are both pleased with our respective purchases which is good news.

Much as I love a good debate, and I know we both have different engines ........

No, I think we'll leave that for another occasion!

There is something that has puzzled me for a long time though - I just know that the answer will be a cracker but what is the black line on your avatar over the exhaust pipe? I have looked at this on many occasions whilst reading your posts but cannot figure it out - am I missing something really obvious?

No side to this question at all, curiosity only.

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Leaves us with two differeing opinions about what's best for us, while giving interested readers a reasonably balanced view, I hope..........It makes a change to have a debate with some-one who doesn't seem to take exception to what could all to easily be interpreted as a me having a go........Thanks.

The black line is a bonnet clip/catch...........

There's a bigger picture   here

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The large picture explains all - it was not the tiny black line that I was referring to but the very large one which is now clearly identified as your four exhaust downpipes in a very dark colour! They just appear as a black rectangle in the smaller Avatar version and I thought it was something overlayed on top of your pipes. I told you the answer would be a cracker.

Reasoned debate - I love it and no doubt it has been entertaining for others too .....

I too was amused by the constant editing :D

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Still friends then? Excellent..........

That very dark colour I call Black...... :p although currently they're dark grey with a hint of rust  :0  :0  I really must get them off to Cam Coat...........

It's an SBD manifold, and I now have the matching SBD carbon can to go with it. I really must get some more photo's done............

And you're right, I think we'll leave the engine debate for another day :0  :D

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Before this post gets too mushy, I would like to state that that colour is not indeed black, but a very, very, very, very, very, very, very dark blue  :devil:

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