GoWest Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Right. I've read and re-read my Westfield brochure, and the pennies are mounting. But which to get - SE or SEi? I'd have thought this was an FAQ - but I don't see it here, so forgive me if I've missed it. As I understand it, SE is cheaper and can have benefits on a flat (eg track) surface as the rear wheels are always perpendicular to the track surface and the requirement for independence is reduced. However unsprung weight is up. On our pitted, rutted roads, the advantages of the independent rear end become apparent in terms of ride quality. But it costs more and in my experience independent rear ends, CV joints and all, can be more troublesome than a good ol' live axle. All things being equal, can an SE really claim advantages over an SEi on a track? Or is the SEi clearly beneficial. Your views please! TIA, Ben. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 22, 2002 Share Posted January 22, 2002 Hmmmmmm. Theorising is OK, but what will you actually use the car for? If it's primarily going to be a track car, then the benefits of the independent rear end will be negligible, but ONLY if the suspension is VERY well set up. Otherwise, an independent chassis will run rings around it, and will be far easier to set up properly. You'll be able to play with settings until you have the camber and toe adjustments set to your liking. There is no such adjustability with a live axle, unless you want to get into bending it............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoWest Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 Thanks. The car will be a track / 'Wales and back' car. This is because hauling the 1400kg ass of my Audi quattro round tracks is fun, but it's not really a race-car experience. More a demonstration of how four wheel drive and torque can overcome gargantuan weight and (relatively) lifeless dynamics. The point about geometric adjustability is of course key. I've got a wild idea about putting a Honda VTEC engine in the car, so if I'm to go to those lengths, optimisation of handling will be important to extract the best from the package. SEi 1, SE 0 Any other views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsebox Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Of course, its far easier to get a good setup on an SE. The geometry is all fixed at the rear, so you've only got the front camber and front toe to get wrong. With an SEi you've got double the variables. I know someone who was running an SEi with 2degrees of toe-out on one of the rear wheels without knowing! SE is considerably lighter. Cheers, Horsebox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Don't forget V-tecs rotate the wrong way, unless you mean an S2000 engine, which rotates the right way, but are probably fairly rare at the breakers yard........ If you want true (ish) race-car adjustability, then SEi it must be. When was the last time you saw a "proper" race car (excluding Mallocks......) with a live (or even De Dion) rear suspension set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsebox Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Dont all the NASCAR things have live axles? I think Minardi F1 cars have them too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 My two penneth. Depends what you want. Other than what has been said before (SE=lighter, good on track / SEi=rides bumps, good all round). My experience is that the live axle cars are easier to control at the limit and that IRS cars can be a little twitchy. This meant that for me, wanting a track car for playing only, live axle was the way as they are more fun to drive (controversial). Also, the unholy fusion of a Honda S2000 powerplant and a SEiW has already been done. Get over to BookaTrack and check out any threads on the forum that mention project Nutter. Have a browse in the gallery also for pictures (have a browse through my recent ones for Elvington, there are a few in there) and JimboCam for video. What's it like? Well it's still very much a prototype at the mo' so it's a bit tatty (the purple aeroscreen on a BRG body and a black and yellow carbon/kevlar seat are a particulaly nice touch) but it is stupidly quick. The builders; Richard Breland & Andy Toner, are completely barking and as it still isn't finished, it can only get quicker. A worrying prospect as it is already dealing out c******m R500 levels of performance! Be afraid, be very afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoWest Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 Hmm - SE lighter? Interesting. Though being a 15st lardass myself that particular advantage may be somewhat diminished... Well thanks for your help so far. I'm wiser, if no more decided! I see the advantages of the SEi, but wonder whether I'd actually miss them if I had an SE. Will ponder further... The VTEC idea was just a whim. I haven't looked into it at all, but was banking on an early Prelude 2.2 - not an S2000. I hear there is an S2000 engined Westie around though? Is there a rule of thumb regarding which way engines rotate (ie country of origin)? Obviously it could cause a headache re choice of gearbox / diff if the chosen lump spun the wrong way... I see now why VX / Zetec power is popular. Cheers again, Ben. PS thank for your 2p juansolo - appeared after I'd posted! SEi 1, SE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I believe Ian Stinton has an early Judd, sorry, VTEC engine that initially rotated the wrong way. This was modified to rotate the right way and resulted in a stunning car. It was for sale a while back, I'm not sure if it was sold or not. The only S2000 conversion I know of is the one mentioned by Juan, although there is another one about to get underway in Australia. However, getting the engine in the first place is the major problem. Probably worth contacting Rich Breland (you'll be able to grab him at BookaTrack if you post on the forum, he's a very nice bloke and knows his stuff. Graeme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 GoWest - I'm a 16st lardass and I use the Diet Coke rule - having a diet coke makes the burger ok, hence having a lighter car allows me to be heavier and not have to deal with dieting. Also bear in mind that for every stone over weight, you just need to add a proportional amount of power. It all balances out y'see Gee-Fin - Wondered where you'd got to. Would this be the carbon blokey going for the S2000? He got in touch with me about it a while ago and I put him onto RichB. Mind the trees in Barbados! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee_fin Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Yep, that's the one. Been getting advice on pace notes from one of his competitors too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris A Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I thought Mallocks were "proper" racing cars - certainly seemed quick enough to me. Like my 10yr Se - good on circuits (won 1992 Westfiled Ch'ship in it) - fairly light with vaux engine (520kgs ish ! just needs different tuning for sprints. Could really do with a better location method for rear axle - "woblink" or something far better than dodgy panhard rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I thought Mallocks were "proper" racing cars They are. They're also live axle, and for the purposes of my example, didn't want them included, a bit like Nascar cars...... Ask any car designer with a clean sheet of paper, asked to design a sports car, with the emphasis on top drawer handling, won't design it around a live or de dion axle. Basic engineering fact........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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