njkmrs Posted July 13, 2007 Author Share Posted July 13, 2007 Well I had my first ride out in a Westie the other night .It was in a Megabusa .Awesome acceleration and a well sorted car . Still wondering what the Cossie powered can do though ,but certainly enjoyed the rush of a Westie at full blat !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 You've all been talking about me... QUOTE Specifically the valves on the YB are way to small and the ports are tiny with the exhaust side looping round in a rather unhelpful way, neither of these things is a big problem but due to the head design enlarging the ports to the degree necessary is a massive job. Apart from the valves and porting (about 3 grand of work there alone) you'll need new cams, springs, tappets, pistons etc etc. Valves and porting alone isn't 3 grand. My whole engine stands me at less than 6K so far and I buy most of my stuff direct from Cosworth. I had my head ported for a smidge less than 800 quid about 4 years ago. I kept the standard valves (but fitted Isky double springs) because they are big enough unless you're chasing every last horsepower, which I'm not... well, not right now... With a pair of warmed over cams and a set of 48's on top of an Atmo Cosworth pistoned 205 bottom end, my car makes (made) an average of 235bhp, and nearly 200ft/lb of torque. Plenty enough to spin the 1A tyres at 90mph in third, and with a 7500rpm red line, enough to reach max speed for the gearing (127mph) at Goodwood, even with a full screen fitted It almost has Jenveys and a DTA fitted, so I'm hoping for some gains in torque and maybe a horsepower or two... Now, whilst I absolutely don't want to argue with Chris on the merits of a well mapped turbo engine, is it not correct to say that the turbo cars will benefit from porting and cam work as well? I don't think an atmo is "damned expensive" when compared to a turbo if we were to get stuck in to what costs what. Ultimately a turbo will produce more power, but once you get above about 250bhp in a Se7en there is so much other stuff that you have to look at, IMO more so on a turbo than an atmo, cooling being the biggest challenge. Apart from pub bragging rights, I can't see that having more than 300bhp is worth it for a road car, other than for straight line, top end speed. And I want to mention weight here, while we're at it. My Atmo Cossie car, in a narrow chassis with a full screen, cage, two seats and the simple/obvious weight saving tactics, weighs in at under 600Kg's, and there is more to come off yet. I'd like to compare the weights of the turbo cars with all their extra metalwork fitted so we can get the power to weight ratios in to the discussion. As for comparing a bike engined car to a car engined car, there is no right answer. I prefer nat asp car engines to turbo's and bike engines as I firmly believe they give the user greater access to more of the performance envelope of these cars for more of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordB Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Mines a turbo cossy - last dynoed at 264bhp and 280 lb/ft at the wheels. I agree with the logic that 300bhp is about as far you really want to go in a westy - and that too much torque is not really great for traction particularly if you have a light car - your better off with more horses and less torque in the lighter cars (hence bike engines do well at the track) Don't agree with the straight line thinking tho - my turbo is very useable on the tight turny stuff and with big breaks I can go in fast, hard on the breaks and then boot it out at full boost - there aint many bikes that have kept up with that never mind other westies. As a full up turbo YB with a meaty oil cooling and charge cooling system Im still only weighing in at 670kg (half tank). All in good fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 Bikes don't have enough grip to outcorner even a poorly tyred Westfield. With a set of AO48's or 888's, even a well driven bike doesn't have much hope in the twisties so the comparison is not really valid. QUOTE Don't agree with the straight line thinking tho - my turbo is very useable on the tight turny stuff and with big breaks I can go in fast, hard on the breaks and then boot it out at full boost And if I may be so bold, no offence intended, the driving style described will be recognised by the sprinters and racers around here as the beginners technique to cornering. It is precisely the driving style of a car with lots of power and big brakes, but maybe sub optimal handling (or a turbo that comes on boost too fiercely...) as anyone who's ever watched Bob Light at Castle Combe will attest to. It can get results, but it relies entirely on having lots of power to mask the other defficiencies the car may be carrying. And no, I'm not criticising you or your car, but assuming you are new to Westfields (are you?) then I think there is probably a lot more to come from your car that will reap even greater rewards. If you want to find out how fast it is for real though, get it to a sprint and set a time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 My cossie turbo drives almost like a Nat asp car tbh, albeit with a virtually flat torque curve. Very little spike as the turbo comes in, in fact its less peaky than some big power nat asp cars with 40bhp less than mine. I'm glad I took cng1's advice and took it to dave at emerald. Driver tuition and airfield days coming up as soon as I get back from work tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordB Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 [And if I may be so bold, no offence intended, the driving style described will be recognised by the sprinters and racers around here as the beginners technique to cornering. And no, I'm not criticising you or your car, but assuming you are new to Westfields (are you?) then I think there is probably a lot more to come from your car that will reap even greater rewards. Sprints are on the agenda - just dont want to bend it! Two years in my westy probably does count as a newby still - always prepared to learn. But don't assume that I'm new to POWER - its just different power. And driving style is all very subjective on the road anyway. Im not offended - why would I - I've got a toy that pretty much out paces anything - even if driven by a numpty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samcooke Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 QUOTE I agree with the logic that 300bhp is about as far you really want to go in a westy I don't. Why can't you have more than that? The way cng1's car pulls beyond 100mph puts it on another planet to the 200-odd bhp nat asp cars. I'm sure he struggles to get it *all* to the road in 1st - 3rd but this can be resolved by pressing less hard on the right hand pedal. On an open road or track my car's power / weight / traction / grip balance is lovely, but I find it very frustrating on both the road and track when powerful barges tear by easily on the straight bits and trickle through the bends / roundabouts. I somehow don't think I'd have that problem in L**COS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill shurvinton Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 With a pair of warmed over cams and a set of 48's on top of an Atmo Cosworth pistoned 205 bottom end, my car makes (made) an average of 235bhp, and nearly 200ft/lb of torque. Plenty enough to spin the 1A tyres at 90mph in third, and with a 7500rpm red line Average power? Over what rev range. Daft metric as presented. Feet divided by pounds isn't torque. feet times pounds is torque. Assuming you meant the latter, then I suspect nearly is stretching the truth a bit. For a mild engine with a mild porting job you are not likely to see more than 92ftlb per litre. So for a 2litre engine that would be 184ftlb. So your nearly 200ftlb is like saying you have 'nearly 250HP'. As the YB is very oversquare a 7500RPM redline seems a tad low and missing out on where the engine can shine. Getting sloppy in your exitement at being back on the boardroom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samcooke Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 The above said, I appreciate cng1's car is a smidge ;)more developed than most and that 350bhp acheived by slapping a big turbo on with no thought to anything else would be a handful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill shurvinton Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 It is more developed than most (and at 370HP now), but it didn't cost the earth. The block I think he paid about 500 for. He ported the heads himself. The pace chargecooler, GT turbo and new plenum were not cheap, but all in all it is a lot of power for the outlay and proof that good engineering and careful though beats bling bingo every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Average power? Over what rev range. Daft metric as presented. Averaged over the three different rolling roads it was on. One read (and is known to read) high, and we had to abort at 7200ish 'cos it coughed! Power was 248bhp and rising... One read low (223bhp) 'cos of a diff problem making the car do funny things in the rollers, and the other read near enough 235bhp. I'm being conservative on the revs as the cams fitted don't really do much above 7500rpm, much more than that will kill the 'box anyway, and because that's what I wanted. I *like* the safety margin. For the mode of use, I shouldn't need to rev the nads off it if it makes the power inside the self imposed limit. It'll still be one of the most powerful nat asp 2B cars out there. It's the nut holding the wheel that needs work And yes, sloppy phrasing. My pedantry credentials have taken a battering during my down time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMackay Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 better one of same car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 As an ex-pintworth owner, I'll stick in another vote for n/a. 200+bhp, 565kgs with all fluids, it was plenty fast enough and that was even with it's completely bizarre bottom end. I have to admit I miss it still as it had the perfect balance of power and track setup for me, but the new Westy is actually usable on the road which I'm finding quite pleasant these days (getting old). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algie Posted July 28, 2007 Share Posted July 28, 2007 njkmrs Im home in Warrington this weekend if you still would like a cosworth powered ride. :-) call me on +41 79 772 90 10 Algie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njkmrs Posted July 29, 2007 Author Share Posted July 29, 2007 algie ,only just got on the PC this weekend,probably too late,but yes definately still interested in a Cossy Westfield experience.Are you around this week ? or when would be good for you ?? Regards Rob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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