225bhp 2L Zetec

[moody]

I'm looking at a replacement engine for my car and know of a 2L Zetec that is available. It comes with a bhp graph showing 225bhp with 195lb of torque. The seller wants around £3k for it and it is of the following spec. which is how it will come.

Rebored 2L Zetec, with ARP rodbolts, pocketed pistons, Raceline wet sump, lightweight flywheel, head and inlet manifold ported by Raceline, wild cams, twin 45 webbers, Raceline water rail.

Apparently, it has done no more than 3000 miles if that.

Is it woth that money???

[Martin Keene]

I'd want to know a lot more information than that...

Exact spec of cams? (to back up the power claim)

Make of pistons? and are they forged? (they'd want to be, because at a guess it will need to be reved a hell of a lot)

Does it have steel rods? (see above)

etc

[moody]

Cams are Kent are about spec for output, don't know what numbers but I'm happy with them. Don't know about pistons, rods are standard and it does'nt need to rev alot to get power, from memory on graph max power about 6400rpm

[perksy]

For 3 grand i think i'd want to hear it running  

I'd also want to see all the receipts....

[Tubs]

I'm not that much of an expert but 195ftlbs seems rather a lot for a 2.0L. Raceline have a 220bhp spec motor that only manages 177ftlbs.

I'd want to know a lot more about it before I'd pay that much for a Zetec (I have a Zetec).

[Martin Keene]

Cams are Kent are about spec for output, don't know what numbers but I'm happy with them. Don't know about pistons, rods are standard and it does'nt need to rev alot to get power, from memory on graph max power about 6400rpm

Hmm, that doesn't sound much... I've got a mate with 196 and he is reving higher... Not saying it is not possible, just unusal.

[Jenko]

Agree that for that price it should have a steel bottom end (rods certainly)..............

Just bear in mind a new zetec can be bought for £800, to port a head £350, new cams - £350, ARP bolts £70, Sump - £200 (guess), water rail £150 (guess), twin 45's - £550, inlet manifold £150, lightened fly wheel £200...........Phew..thats around the 3k mark for all new items..........

[moody]

Agree that for that price it should have a steel bottom end (rods certainly)..............

Just bear in mind a new zetec can be bought for £800, to port a head £350, new cams - £350, ARP bolts £70, Sump - £200 (guess), water rail £150 (guess), twin 45's - £550, inlet manifold £150, lightened fly wheel £200...........Phew..thats around the 3k mark for all new items..........

I would like a steel bottom end but don't think it has.

Not sure about costs that you state, last time i looked at raceline website everything was dearer than that. But if it did would that give you 225bhp?

Suppose you got put it together and tune it as well.

I have heard it run, its fine, apparently goes well as well.

But it does sound a bit expensive then, never mind.  thanks all the same

[Guest]

it should have a steel bottom end for 3k i don't think so .............

it would cost way more than 3k to buy and build an engine to that spec with all those pieces on .

or are we gonna undervalue things again?

if its a decent 220/225bhp engine with 3k miles on then i would say 2.5 to 3k is about right .

a fully built engine new is 6.7k at a lesser spec than that from raceline .(210bhp) , parts alone will cost 4.2k inc vat from raceline ,so a 225bhp engine with 3k miles on it for 3k seems fine  as long as it is what it is and recipts are backing up the spec ...........

[Kevin Wood]

To get 225 BHP out of a 2 litre normally aspirated engine at 6400 RPM is rewriting the laws of physics, as is the torque figure, I suspect.

Have a look at the power curves on Raceline's site. Their 220 BHP Zetec peaks at 223 BHP at 7500 RPM according to their dyno plots. That's on throttle bodies too, so you can probably take off 5% for a carb engine. Peak torque of that engine is 177.

Either this engine has been run on a very optimistic dyno or the RPM was calculated wrongly.

Either way, you can't take the power figures as accurate so unless you can determine the condition and spec of the parts used it's not worth 3k.

Kevin

[Guest]

true i had ignored the claim of 6400 for peak ......... my 225 peaks at about 7500 on carbs ........ and revs to 8k .

[scott beeland]

N/A Zetec 2 litre giving 195lb/ft torque.          

Errrr....Nope

[Chris.B]

I posted extensively last year on what was done to my engine.  In summary, it's a 2L Zetec & was extensively worked on to give over 220bhp & 190lb ft on a dyno.  Max bhp @7400.  Bits & labour cost almost £3k.

[moody]

To get 225 BHP out of a 2 litre normally aspirated engine at 6400 RPM is rewriting the laws of physics, as is the torque figure, I suspect.

Have a look at the power curves on Raceline's site. Their 220 BHP Zetec peaks at 223 BHP at 7500 RPM according to their dyno plots. That's on throttle bodies too, so you can probably take off 5% for a carb engine. Peak torque of that engine is 177.

Either this engine has been run on a very optimistic dyno or the RPM was calculated wrongly.

Either way, you can't take the power figures as accurate so unless you can determine the condition and spec of the parts used it's not worth 3k.

Kevin

Thanks again. I best check the rpm figures quoted I think

But, torque is relative to power and rpm isn't it, not cubic capacity or am i wrong

I think Raceline figures on their site are for a different spec. engine, don't think thats for pocketed pistons thus cams could be different, but i maybe wrong, thats what i've been told.

However, I don't go along with 5% drop just because use of carbs instead of tb's. IME, a well setup carb application used in a low bhp install like this will be very compariable, but agree the higher the bhp it will be noticable

[Kevin Wood]

QUOTE

But, torque is relative to power and rpm isn't it, not cubic capacity or am i wrong

It's related to both. Power is the product of torque and RPM at any given engine speed. Peak torque is pretty much proportional to engine capacity but also depends on how well the engine is breathing.

So, for a 2 litre engine without any tricks like forced induction there will be a theoretical limit on the torque that the engine will produce. By changing the cams, porting the head and fitting bigger valves, etc. you are shifting the torque further up the RPM range. This is why tuned engines typically have a weaker low-rpm performance. The torque curve has been shifted higher in RPM. Since power = torquexrpm, you get more power at the peak.

Incidentally, power in BHP = Torque in Ft.Lbs at 5250 RPM so the two curves on the graph should cross here.

QUOTE

think Raceline figures on their site are for a different spec. engine, don't think thats for pocketed pistons thus cams could be different, but i maybe wrong, thats what i've been told.

I'm sure they're not for exactly the same spec. but they should be comparable. Unless you can find a way of generating a lot more torque per CC to increase the power you have to rev higher.

QUOTE

However, I don't go along with 5% drop just because use of carbs instead of tb's. IME, a well setup carb application used in a low bhp install like this will be very compariable, but agree the higher the bhp it will be noticableThanks again. I best check the rpm figures quoted I think

True. If top-end power was the only concern you could probably make comparable power on carbs but it's a tradeoff between power and flexibility so unless you're only considering racing it, you'd probably want to sacrifice some of the former for some of the latter.

No need to . It's easy to take quoted figures as gospel. I just thought I'd point out that something wasn't quite adding up.

Kevin