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Why do you dislike Ford motors?


wannawestfield

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wannawestfield

In reading the various posts in this section of the board, I've seemed to notice that a lot of you dislike Ford motors.  Why?  Here in the States, Zetecs are abundant and appreciated by a growing segment of the motoring public.  I myself have a 2 liter Zetec in my ZX3 and think it is a great motor.  As of this writing, I have added adjustable cam gears, header, sport exhaust, underdrive pulley, and ITG intake and am very pleased with its performance.  Over all, I believe that I have seen a 15-20 hp increase.  The Zetec is tractable enough to provide me with quite a few high-speed-induced smiles on my commute to work, but still be a solid little motor for torquinq around town.  When I finally get my SeiW, this is the motor that I would like to put in it, but I would be interested in hearing why you don't (and do) like the Ford motor.  Also, if not the Zetec, what American motor would you suggest I consider for my future Westfield.

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The Zetec is just not as responsive to tuning as the Vauxhall (GM) 16 valve engine, which would be the tuners choice. For example, you have seen a 15-20 bhp rise in performance in your car. You have spent xxx dollars, and you probably have around 150bhp, assuming a 130 spec Zetec as a starting point. An otherwise standard Vx 16 valve will show approaching 160-170 bhp, with no other mods except a pair of 45's strapped on. Dunnell were claiming to be able to get 260bhp from a Zetec, but I have never seen or heard of one. There are several Vx engines I know of that are easily approaching that figure, and they have room for more.

If you can find a US version of the Vauxhall 16 valve, pre eco-tec motor, then compared to a Zetec, IMO, it's a no brainer ;)

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FWIW, we Xflowers (as in engine model, NOT alien fauna) still love the old leaky thing, almost repairing on the fly and will retain that particular unit of motorvational power for various reasons.

My particularly favourite reason is that I can't afford to upgrade my furry dice, let alone my 6k limited iron lump.

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burn them burn them all heeeeeeeeeeee

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wannawestfield

.

burn them burn them all heeeeeeeeeeee

Hmmm... ???

Does anyone know what the American equivalent of the Vauxhall motor would be?  We don't have Vauxhall here, but we do, of course, have GM products.  It seems to me that the VX is a General Motors nameplate (or is it marque for you folks? ;) ), no?  I think that the closest GM motor we have in the Good Ol' US of A is the motor that comes in our American version of the Cav, which is vastly different than what you call a Cavalier in the UK.  I think it is a 16 valve, DOHC inline-four, but I'm not sure.  I'm not saying that I'm going to change my mind about my motor choice, but it would be interesting to know.   In fact, I'm still pretty sure about my motor choice because I am one of those strange people who bleeds Ford blue and loves Kas, Pumas, Mondeos (though they've stopped selling 'em here), and of course, my beloved ZX3.

Blatman, I just noticed that you were talking about carbs in your post.  Most likely my mtor will reatin the FI system, not carb, unless there is some problem with FI on a Westfield of which I am unaware.  (And hey, let's all admit that's a distinct possibility, eh? :D)  I'll do this simply in order to maintain my emissions requirement and enhance the ease with which I start my car on cold mornings.

And as for the cost of the performance parts for my beloved Focus:

Underdrive pulley: $95

Intake: $149

Header: $349

Exhaust: $375 (but could have and should have simply had local muffler shop fabricate and custom unit for me for half the price and all of the quality and reliability.)

Adjustable cam gears: $175

Grand total:  $1143/790 pounds sterling

Uh, ouch.  I'd never figured that until now.  :0  And my friends and I did all of these installs, so I saved myself a few bucks there.  And this doesn't count my handling, brakes, spoiler, or ICE.  Hmm.   Of course, if I lost my catalytic converter, that would gain me another few HP, but I have no desire to do so at the cost of spewing (even more) pollutants into the air.

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jess.hurchist

One of the downsides of the zetec is the relatively small (potential) valve area.  This limits the absolute volume of fuel/air you can easily get in.  Aside from that it's not a bad engine.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I think the duratec may be a different kettle of fish.  I'd heard a romour somewhere it would be easy to get 250 bhp from the 2L.  Certainly much easier than from the zetec.

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This'll make two threads where I'm banging on about the Vx (short for Vauxhall, the UK name for GM........) engine.

I have never looked under the bonnet (hood) of a GM Cavalier, so I couldn't comment. There will be some pictures of a Vx engine on one of the build sites listed on the links page on the main site (www.wscc.co.uk). Have a look and see if any appear familiar. If you are planning on keeping the engine emissions compliant, and are not bothered about high specific output, then the Zetec is probably the way to go. I have Jenvey throttle bodies on my car. They are similar in size and shape to DCOE carbs, so there are no real fitment issues, just cost............You may need to have a bonnet bulge to get the standard injection fittings to....er.......fit, but I'm not sure. One of the Zetec boys will know, as will the factory.

FWIW, if I spent £790 on a bog standard UK spec VX engine, I'd be looking at 180-200bhp, which, in a Westfield, means true supercar performance.

Jess's claims for the new Duratec are the same claims made for the Zetec by the tuning specialists. As mentioned before, they were wide of the mark last time, so I remain sceptical, especially as the first owners of tuned examples will be paying for the developement out of their own pockets. I'd wait a year/18 months before looking at the Duratec.

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Oh yeah, I never mention the crossflow because

FWIW, we Xflowers (as in engine model, NOT alien fauna) still love the old leaky thing, almost repairing on the fly

obvious really......... :0  :p  ;)

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Engine pics..............I should have remembered really. There are a few pics of engines and stuff, including the engine and interior of my green car on Ric's internet page. Click here to go to the main page, page 3 in the gallery will reveal some pics of both my cars. In the interests of brand equality, the blue car is powered by a NA Cosworth............

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jess.hurchist

AFAIK the zetec is longer stroke/smaller valve and as such won't tune as easily as the duratec.  I agree on cost.  I suspect there will be few reasonably priced tuning options yet.  

Personally I went for a zetec as it was a relatively easy upgrade from a Xflow.  Bog standard (2L) zetec ~ 165bhp.  Not as good as the Vx but a step up from the Xflow AND it doesn't leak!  The pistons don't appear to collapse either.

I'm looking at building something a bit "nippier" in a year or so and will consider Vx/duratec/busa etc, whatever's best bang(not in the Xflow sense) for the bucks by then.

As ford engines go there were a few pleasant design features with the zetec that makes it a big improvement over the xflow/pinto/dohc

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The engine originally designed by Yamaha for Ford is the better option from the Ford source. John Palmer has successfully developed this engine with one of the tuning companies in the UK (Aldon or Burton - can't remember which) with excellent success in Sprints and Hillclimbs. It is only 1700cc but produces good power and reasonable torque and is very light being alloy blocked. The only problem in extracting good results from this engine is that because only a few people have started playing with it has required large sums of money to develop, so until the specialist bits are produced in volumes the cost of the engine will not come down.  For the smaller capacity engines I'd reckon the modern GM lump (the X16XEL) is on equal terms with the Ford / Yamaha engine for tuning potential. You will find this engine in most of the modern Opel / Holden variants. In 2 litre form the GM 20XE engine has the edge over the Ford Zetec by miles both in terms of cost and reliability.

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"Blatman turns into Arnie Webb shocker".

Have you given him your login or something? ;) Banging on about Vx's like they're the best thing since sliced bread. Oh wait a minute, they are......

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"Blatman turns into Arnie Webb shocker".

Oi......you sayin' I'm fat................... :0  :p  :D  ;)

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I was working in Palo Alto, California for 2 months a few years ago and Avis rented me  the equivalent of a VX Cavalier (company funded so I had no choice).  I couldn't resist a peek under the hood and the engine looked nothing at all like the UK Cavalier lump.  From memory, I seem to remember it was a 2 litre, or 2.3 litre 4-cylinder, single-cam 8-valve unit and looked suspiciously all cast-iron!  Mated to an auto box it had a very high yawn factor but the horrible noises it made at anything over 2000 RPM managed to keep me awake :D .

-JohnK

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