TableLeg Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Looking at possibly upgrading my current Modem/Router setup. I need to have a modem for the Fibre connection. It seems there's many more makes and models of 'Router' as opposed to 'Modem/Routers'. My question is, is it worth buying a separate Modem and Router so the next time I have to upgrade I'd only need to replace the Router? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, TableLeg said: Looking at possibly upgrading my current Modem/Router setup. I need to have a modem for the Fibre connection. It seems there's many more makes and models of 'Router' as opposed to 'Modem/Routers'. My question is, is it worth buying a separate Modem and Router so the next time I have to upgrade I'd only need to replace the Router? Have you got to pay for the fibre modem or does your provider supply that as part of your rental. The routers which are built into most 'free' modem are basic and not the best. I recently upgraded to TP Link Deco Mesh items and put my virgin media modem/router into modem mode and the TP link is the router. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TableLeg Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, Ian Kinder (Bagpuss) - Joint Peak District AO said: Have you got to pay for the fibre modem or does your provider supply that as part of your rental. The routers which are built into most 'free' modem are basic and not the best. I recently upgraded to TP Link Deco Mesh items and put my virgin media modem/router into modem mode and the TP link is the router. I would have to buy the modem if I went that route. I like some of the new Mesh Asus DSL routers but they are quite expensive at £300. I read that TP Link ones perfrom well too. I'm also limited to BT only networks. I should add I've never used ISP provided modem/routers and always used my own. I currently have 2x Netgear Nighthawks but I'm getting occasional dropouts and am starting to think it's the router getting a bit flaky as it's a few years old now. The stats are telling me the home network is not connected but the connection to the exchange is still active. I also see a lot of DOS Attacks in the logs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I've used Billion modem routers for years now and think they're great. Very interrogatable. I also got 3 Deco E4s recently but actually found it better to keep using the Billion as the router and just use the Decos in access point mode. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TableLeg Posted April 13, 2021 Author Share Posted April 13, 2021 Just now, Stuart said: I've used Billion modem routers for years now and think they're great. Very interrogatable. I also got 3 Deco E4s recently but actually found it better to keep using the Billion as the router and just use the Decos in access point mode. I remember years back Billion modem/routers always seemed to get a more stable connection (and better speed) than most other routers at the time. Strangely they've not come up in any of the latest reviews I've searched online though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 33 minutes ago, TableLeg said: I remember years back Billion modem/routers always seemed to get a more stable connection (and better speed) than most other routers at the time. Strangely they've not come up in any of the latest reviews I've searched online though. On ADSL you could 'tune' the SNR on them which could help speed. Doesn't work on VDSL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 I wouldn't worry about the difference between modem and modem/router. When you say "get ready for fibre" do you have fibre to the premises or is this the more usual fibre to the cabinet with the last mile being down the phone line? If I assume the latter then for me the choice is to go with BT's modem (not much wrong with them for the most part) or something towards the business grade items. I'm not a fan of the "pro-sumer" stuff with whizz-bang names and interesting lights and antenna arrays. They aren't really doing anything special. So with "business grade" in mind I'm a big fan of Draytek Vigor routers. I have a few out in the field in a variety of use cases and they have all been rock solid. The 2762ac would be a good choice and yes I have direct experience of them. The 2762 further down that page might be less costly and will be built on largely the same components. The differences for these and the higher end devices on the same page are firewall speed which is largely irrelevant unless the internet speed exceeds the firewall speed. I have also used (twice) D-Link VDSL routers with 3g/4g back-up (which the Drayteks also have if required) and whilst they wre not as heavily utilised, they were still efficient and reliable. Finally I have limited experience with the Cisco RV series of routers. Cisco call these "SMB routers" and to be honest whilst they will attract Cisco guys (I am one) having tried a couple of them I won't use them. Far to fiddly to set up for a small business and I've had one fail within a year. Not a large sample I grant you but I avoid them in favour of Draytek. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TableLeg Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 Thanks Blatman, Not sure what you mean by "When you say "get ready for fibre" do you have fibre...." as I don't recall saying that🤷♀️ I have FTTC and the cabinet is about 300m from my home. From a technical point of view is there anything that makes a Modem only any better than another modem? Like I say if I were to go to a Modem to router then my choices along the line are much wider. But I also wouldn't want the Modem to be a bottleneck especially if a different chipset/brand Modem gave better performance. I guess for all those in the same situation like me they are just running the ISP supplied modem/routers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 14, 2021 Share Posted April 14, 2021 22 hours ago, TableLeg said: I need to have a modem for the Fibre connection. I was pa**ing.... (p-a-r-s-i-n-g. Swear filter needs a tweak) 2 hours ago, TableLeg said: Not sure what you mean by "When you say "get ready for fibre" do you have fibre...." as I don't recall saying that🤷♀️ Anyhow... 2 hours ago, TableLeg said: From a technical point of view is there anything that makes a Modem only any better than another modem? Like I say if I were to go to a Modem to router then my choices along the line are much wider. But I also wouldn't want the Modem to be a bottleneck especially if a different chipset/brand Modem gave better performance. Why add a second piece of kit that is absolutely not necessary? I haven't seen a modem followed by a router EXCEPT where I am dealing with a leased line when an ONT is supplied but they're many thousands of pounds and very noisy... ISP supplied routers "just" have modem boards in them... more or less. Take the board out, put it in it's own box and plug it in, then buy a router... What makes you hesitant to use the ISP supplied router? I know you prefer not to, but why? Being as this is my area of expertise, I'm interested in the technical reasons for not using an ISP supplied router. 20 hours ago, TableLeg said: I also see a lot of DOS Attacks in the logs. No, you really don't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TableLeg Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Blatman said: Why add a second piece of kit that is absolutely not necessary? I haven't seen a modem followed by a router EXCEPT where I am dealing with a leased line when an ONT is supplied but they're many thousands of pounds and very noisy... ISP supplied routers "just" have modem boards in them... more or less. Take the board out, put it in it's own box and plug it in, then buy a router... What makes you hesitant to use the ISP supplied router? I know you prefer not to, but why? Being as this is my area of expertise, I'm interested in the technical reasons for not using an ISP supplied router. Still none the wiser to what you were referring to ref: Pa**ing but anyway☹️ Regarding the ISP supplied Modem/Routers so far they have all been pretty cheap products lacking in some features. By comparison I get more options in my current router than I know what to do with but make use of a number of them. The QOS is really handy having 2 teenagers with PCs, phones and TVs always streaming/downloading. It gives me great control over the priorities between all of the household connections. These sorts of features may be common place now in ISP provided routers but since I haven't used one in more than 15 years I wouldn't know. I have nearly always gained by swapping to my own Modem/Router either in speed or reliability. Because of this I have always used my own equipment over the ISP supplied ones. What I do know is if you are looking to buy your own 'Router' there's 5 times as many to choose from than a 'Modem/Router'. I've still got some of the original BT Modems kicking about somewhere. That is how they were providing internet access when I first went to Fibre. Since then they seem to have switched to Modem/Routers. I guess that's from a cost saving point of view and the simplicity of one unit doing both for an run of the mill domestic end user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TableLeg Posted April 14, 2021 Author Share Posted April 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, Blatman said: 21 hours ago, TableLeg said: I also see a lot of DOS Attacks in the logs. No, you really don't... DOS attacks as opposed to DDOS. What makes you say I'm not actually getting them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 15, 2021 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Not saying your're not getting them. But you're not getting many. DOS (or DDoS) attacks are rarely launched against individuals. What you're seeing is likely bots scanning for "interesting activity" on a connection and probing the traffic. Nothing to worry about, unless it's coming from a rival gamer Don't buy a modem! If the router has an RJ11 connection for the phone line then it's a router/modem irrespective of how the vendor describes it. Router/modems are almost universally used and many router/modems can be placed in to modem mode, even ISP ones. I've never had an issue with an ISP supplied router/modem at home and my internal network is quite large. I don't game though so I can't comment on QoS for gamng, I've only ever (and rarely) used it for VoIP. With regards to QoS yes that's a useful feature for an internal network where streamed UDP traffic needs a high priority. For the avoidance of doubt though, once a QoS packet reaches the external interface of the router the QoS markings will be ignored so QoS won't help with any potential congestion on the public internet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyonspride Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 When I needed a new router I went with an Asus RTAC66U, which is more of a gaming router, but it's got a lot of nice features, like my own personal VPN server built in. As someone already commented, there's a better selection of dedicated routers, than there are modem/router, but also this translates to lower cost (on average). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TableLeg Posted April 24, 2021 Author Share Posted April 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Lyonspride said: As someone already commented, there's a better selection of dedicated routers, than there are modem/router, but also this translates to lower cost (on average). This exactly what I mean, so many more options of routers. It also seems that the routers have more options available to them than the modem/router version such at DD-WRT and VPN via the router to name 2. You can't do this sort of thing with the modem/router version. I have my Modem/router Nighthawk as the main connection and then my previous Router Nighthawk as an access point. Because I have both I have been able to see the available options in the settings between the 2. What Modem are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted April 24, 2021 Share Posted April 24, 2021 9 hours ago, TableLeg said: You can't do this sort of thing with the modem/router version. Sort of... There will be vendor and version differences of course but lets take Draytek as an example. The router has EXACTLY the same firmware as the router/modem. So there is zero service one has over the other. Same goes for Cisco routers, be they SMB or enterprise grade. From my perspctive the Netgear/Asus etc etc are nowehre near the capability or reliability of Draytek/Cisco and DD-WRT firmware is a fun thing to do if "computers" are a hobby but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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