mb893 Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 That's specific power not crank power... so 150bhp/ltr for a 2.0 engine would be 300bhp etc etc... sorry for the confusion. And yes agreed, there are always 'extras', so all I'm interested in is the engine cost as the rest would probably average out, not matter if it was a bike or car engine. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Dunno then. Lots probably. Bear in mind that you're talking race engine outputs when it comes to 2.0 engines producing 150bhp/litre - the old 2.0 touring cars weren't producing *much* more than that - think they peaked around 320bhp - and the current ones aren't up to that level. Granted the rules and regs get in the way slightly but 300bhp from a 2.0 engine is never going to be easy or cheap. Forced induction is obviously the easy answer, but even that doesn't come without its issues, particularly in the tight confines of a Westfield. Heat and weight are the two which spring most prominently to mind. I sense your question was based around the specific power outputs of bike engines, presumably both N/A and forced induction ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb893 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Yep, as I say, no axe sharpening, just interested in the maths. I suppose another set of questions could be £££/bhp over stock for a specific engine. When I was flying, the chap that owned the club I used was ever so cross that he spent over £5000 to add 10bhp to an engine... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 the chap that owned the club I used was ever so cross that he spent over £5000 to add 10bhp to an engine... Was he hoping for more ? Or just daft ?? Yep, as I say, no axe sharpening, just interested in the maths. I suppose another set of questions could be £££/bhp over stock for a specific engine. The biggest problem I see with any of the discussions like this is that it's hard to compare apples with apples. For example, some engines are designed to produce a lot of power for their size - Honda VTECs for example - while others are designed to lug around a rep-mobile - Zetecs. You can make both engines produce 200bhp but one will do it out of the box and the other one will need a reasonable outlay of cash. But then you look at the cost of the engines and it probably works out cheaper overall to build a 200bhp Zetec than it does to buy a Hinda engine... The issue is further clouded when you try to compare CECs and BECs because a bike engine is clearly built to a higher overall spec than a mass produced car engine. They're designed to rev to silly levels and so the internals reflect this. As a result you have a better starting point to build a more powerful engine from. But once you get a car engine up to a point where you've built a strong bottom end (which doesn't *have* to include a steel crank or anything overly exotic - the crank in my engine is, apparently, good for 9,500rpm in standard form... ) that can cope with increased revs then incremental power increases aren't that expensive. But with a bike engine, if I've read some of the comments correctly, once you start thinking about turbo conversions then you're into the realms of new rods and pistons and maybe other work such as porting the head. So I imagine the cost gap compared to car engines starts to close slightly at that point ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb893 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Was he hoping for more ? Or just daft ?? Nope, think it was its check 1000hrs or something, that and it was a Rolls Royce engine But with a bike engine, if I've read some of the comments correctly, once you start thinking about turbo conversions then you're into the realms of new rods and pistons and maybe other work such as porting the head. So I imagine the cost gap compared to car engines starts to close slightly at that point ? More the other way around from the sums I did (unless you do a 'Ric' and go bananas ), straight tuning an engine like a blade (the only one I have experience of) is jolly expensive for what you get (2.5K+ for 30 to 40 bhp) and while the bits will be stronger.... I looked at turboing as a cheap way to get power as it involved minimal engine work and now I've seen whats what, I'd do it myself next time. Just thicker head gasket and retard the exhaust valves a bit to avoid too much overlap - at 11500rpm, yeah, right that's gonna work Suppose fiddling with any engine to make it do 'more' than it is asked normally to do is a expensive business. I was really just interested in the cost to get a car engine to the same specific bhp as a bike, turbo and normally asp. Your point about apples for apples is a fair one, which offen gets lost, but then, there's the fun. Regards John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Forced induction does indeed seem to be the "cheap" way of getting increasingly outrageous power outputs. But it's not something which I've really delved into in any depth because I like the idea of building power the old fashioned way It might not be as efficient, but it is somehow a little more satisfying. For me at least. I assume with your turbot installation you have to be quite careful with the fuelling and ignition at 11,500 rpm to avoid detonation ? Is there any way to detect it to avoid expensive problems ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragstar Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 because vx owners have managed to hold their testicles in a bowl of miracle grow mixed with luke-warm water for 10 minutes? not sure. you know what. stella is a bad lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 It was all going so well too. I thik mb893 and Nick M should get back to a straight forward p******** contest immediately... You missing a vital piece of your cossie arent you Mr B If you're referring to that diff, er...... no. My Cossie car has an Escort diff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 If you're referring to that diff, er...... no. My Cossie car has an Escort diff..... Nope, i assumed your car had a diff, i'm refering to sommat else, so keep guessing (i might be wrong but i don't think so - i could do a search and confirm my suspisions but i cant be ) Scruffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I can't think of anything missing from either of my cars. Both have all the parts they had when they last ran.........I do have a stock of new bits for the sprinter though. They're under me bed........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb893 Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Is there any way to detect it Yep, when I detect molten ali dripping onto the floor. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I can't think of anything missing from either of my cars. Well as long as your happy you've got everything Scruffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Podmore Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 So then, Blatman is not missing his 'Lag generation unit' then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 Well as long as your happy you've got everything Well, I was....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 For what its worth, you can drop a turbo onto a busa to give you just under 300 ponies for under £2.5k. That is also without having to do the head gasket thing. So about £20 per 1 bhp increase........ Are there CEC gains that can match this? Mr. Ric Bananas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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