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LSD


mark.anson

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But I reckon the only damage done by putting LSD oil in a Sierra diff is to your wallet.   :p

I'd agree there

I've read the WF build manual on diff's but it does not cover lsd's. However, on page 62 it states that 3.62 ratio's, finis no. part number 614656085GG4006BC are standard differentials that where fitted to Sierra 4X4. :zzz:  :zzz:  :zzz:

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Why is it then these oil enhancing agents, can't think of their name at the mo, advise not to be used on lsd and new engines. Their products increases viscosity I believe, reducing friction of two metal surfaces. So thats the same principal here.    

Not quite......

The additives like Slick 50, and Wynns Friction Reducer, do not increase viscosity. They are simply Teflon particles in an oil suspension. A clutch type LSD *needs* friction to work. That's why they have a special oil, one that isn't too slippy (now there's a concept. A "not too slippy" oil..). The reccommendation to not use them in a new engine is 'cos you'll never get it run in.

Bottom line is, if the additive package was so fantastic, the oil companies would put the additives in during manufacture. They don't. I'm pretty sure they've done more research on it than the Slick 50 manufacturers.....

So, for the record, NEVER use a friction reducer in *anything*.....well, almost anything  :0

IME, the an LSD sierra diff  is is tighter than a 'free' diff when holding the prop flange and turning an output shaft.

No argument there. I didn't think we were talking about that particular scenario though.If we were, then apologies to Conibear  

:)

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Why is it then these oil enhancing agents, can't think of their name at the mo, advise not to be used on lsd and new engines. Their products increases viscosity I believe, reducing friction of two metal surfaces. So thats the same principal here.    

Correct, but only if you have a plate LSD....

A plate LSD works by having clutch 'plates' which need a certain amount of friction to work effectively. So friction reducers are not necessarily a good idea.

The viscous Sierra LSD's mechanism is self contained, so the majority of the diff works as standard, and ideally needs 'standard' oil.

BTW, an increase in viscosity will not reduce friction, but will increase drag, ultimately reducing power @ the wheels. The 'slipperyness' of the oil reduces friction....

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Blatters,

What you say about the viscous Sierra LSD is correct in that it is sealed and no matter what oil you put in it will make no difference whatsoever in its slip characteristics. Shame nobody appears to be listening!  ???  :bangshead:

Also no-one has grasped that the sierra 4x4 has 150 hp and splits its drive to the front and rear wheels, whereas most of the westies here have more than 200 hp going through just the one diff. No wonder the std LSD unit doesn't survive and the only unit that does is the ATB!

:p  :)

You have succeeded in leading your horses to water blatters? :durr:  :D

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No wonder the std LSD unit doesn't survive and the only unit that does is the ATB!

Cossie diffs are pretty simmilar, just bigger driveshafts iirc and they take 500bhp pretty well.  How many westie owners are there that have blown a 4x4 diff on the road?  Track work is soemwhat different i'd suspect.

IMHO, with a side order of taxi :D

Scruffy

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Blatters,

What you say about the viscous Sierra LSD is correct in that it is sealed and no matter what oil you put in it will make no difference whatsoever in its slip characteristics. Shame nobody appears to be listening!  ???  :bangshead:

Also no-one has grasped that the sierra 4x4 has 150 hp and splits its drive to the front and rear wheels, whereas most of the westies here have more than 200 hp going through just the one diff. No wonder the std LSD unit doesn't survive and the only unit that does is the ATB!

:p  :)

You have succeeded in leading your horses to water blatters? :durr:  :D

I presume your refering to me Windy ???

I sourced info at the time of putting oil in my LSD which I've previously stated. If I'd of ask Blatters prior to this it would probably have influenced my decision, but i did'nt. If he's correct and that it does'nt matter what oil goes in, then it does'nt matter what i've got in there does it. Blatters states EP90 but it does'nt matter what it is, does it, could be bl**** fairy liquid.

I've noticed that no one's picked up he states ALL 4X4's are LSD, they are not.

I am not asking you what type of diff and oil you've got co's it does'nt matter and I don't give a s~~~~~~~~t.

:D

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he states ALL 4X4's are LSD, they are not.

Yes, they are  :bangshead:

Which 4x4 Sierras weren't? I have a spec sheet somehwere from Ford covering all the XR's, and the GLS variants including the estates, which I'm pretty sure states that Ford fitted LSD's to all it's 4x4 equipped Sierras..

LSD's were fitted so that, in the event of driving in a low traction environment, all 4 (or at least, 3 of the 4) wheels would "spin" under power. Any large difference in the rate of movement of two or more wheels over the others, and you'll wreck the transfer box. That's why, at MOT time they *never* put a 4x4 on the brake rollers (or if they do, they're incompetent....), 'cos the rollers only spin one pair of wheels at a time, whilst the others are sat on the floor. Even a 2WD car should NOT go on the brake rollers if it has an LSD fitted. It can skew the results.......

I researched this very carefully some years ago when I rocked up at a new (to me) MOT place, and the tester rolled it on to the brake rollers. I *just* stopped him in time. However, he wasn't impressed at my yelling at him, so I had to prove that what I was saying was correct, which is why I have the spec sheet.....somewhere......

 

Windy  ;)

We've had the discussion on the viscous LSD's ability to handle the power from a Westfield before. I *really* should know better than to disagree with him, but as I said before when we've discussed this, there may have been a few failures of the Sierra viscous LSD, but it's not like there are *hundreds* of C******ms, Westfields and R***n H**d's all sat around on axle stands waiting for their diffs to be fixed. I agree that competition would probably wreck one in short order if you are fast (which Windy is) and/or the diff spends a lot of it's time doing the job it was designed for. IE, make it work, and it'll wear out. Bear in mind that most diffs from the scrappies will have covered *big* mileage, so should not be treated as new.....

For the fit and forget solution to LSD worries, as Windy (and I) say on a regular basis, fit a Quaife ATB.

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Thread hijack alert! :D

What would a 3.9 ratio do to the gearing of a Westy? Bog standard car, MT75 gearbox, factory built.

Ta.

Andy

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Ah, ok then.

Scratch that idea ;)

Anyone selling a 3.6 Quaife ATB for about 200 quid? :D

Andy

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Jumping in again...anything I should look out for when sourcing an LSD? Is getting an XR4x4 one enough, or is there anything else I need to be careful of?

I've found one for sale for about £125, but presumably it's worth having this reconditioned before putting it on the car. How much is this likely to cost?

Any other pointers would be appreciated.

Ta.

Andy

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Blatters, I don't have a problem with your comments regarding this thread. As you know I've put LSD oil in my diff co's I was advised. You and others have stated what I've put in will be ok and whether your advice is right or wrong I am happy with what I've done, if I had spoken to you prior to my oil fill I would have researched this issue further. I personally have no idea why Windy needs to make such sarcastic comments whether they are directed at me or others, how do we know that you know everything  :D  Individuals should be able to make the own decisions based on their evidence during their build.

I have no idea about what hp any diff can handle so no comment on that one  :D But if I blow mine up caused by to many horses, so what I'll go and buy another spec'd one.

Regards to the Sierra diff LSD, your probably right but Westfield state in their build manual they come with standard or limited slip differentials. Individuals reading this info during their build are going to take this on board.

As said I have no problem with your comments, your knowledge is a plenty  :D  :D  :D

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Westfield state in their build manual they come with standard or limited slip differentials.

Westfield build manual states that Sierra XR4x4's come with standard or LSD's, or Westfield kits can be supplied with standard or LSD's? There is a world of difference.........

Most other Sierras and Granadas have non LSD diffs in a variety of 3.38, 3.62, and 3.9 ratios. The vast majority of those were standard diffs. *ALL* XR4x4's, GLS 4x4's and Estate 4x4's came with LSD's.....I believe *some Grandads came with LSD's too, but I have no idea which.

I didn't read Windy's comments as sarcasm. He makes some valid points which need to be considered. He may not have constructed the sentences very well, but he wasn't trying to p*** anybody off........

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