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Westfield brake cylinder issue


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Hi,

 

I have poor brake force in my SE 1990. I asked for a bigger master cylinder from Westfield and they offer a tandem master cylinder with 20mm bore but is is out of stock and rather expensive. Is there any alternative in the market that would fit ?

 

 

 

 

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AdamR

If you have poor brake force, then a bigger master cylinder will make that worse...

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Man On The Clapham Omnibus

Adam's right. Bigger wheel cylinders are the way forward as long as your system is properly bled or you might run out of pedal travel. It's a shock to go from an over-servo assisted modern car to one with no servo. In the Good Old Days it was always like that - especially with drums all round!

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5 minutes ago, AdamR said:

If you have poor brake force, then a bigger master cylinder will make that worse...

Maybe I used wrong word. Sorry about my bad english...

The pedal goes down to metal when braking hard. It was a bit better earlier. Maybe the cylinder is worn out but I was advised to get a bigger master cylinder to have more fluid to serve all four brakes. Any advices ?

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AdamR

It's no problem, my Finnish just about extends to 'moi' and 'heippa' so you are doing very well 😉

 

If you have a bigger cylinder then yes - it will serve more fluid to each caliper, but this will mean that you need more force from your foot to create the same slowing down of the car. It is not the 'wrong' thing to do, just something to consider!

 

Have you checked for a leak anywhere in the braking system?

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, AdamR said:

It's no problem, my Finnish just about extends to 'moi' and 'heippa' so you are doing very well 😉

 

If you have a bigger cylinder then yes - it will serve more fluid to each caliper, but this will mean that you need more force from your foot to create the same slowing down of the car. It is not the 'wrong' thing to do, just something to consider!

 

Have you checked for a leak anywhere in the braking system?

 

 

 

 

Thanks !

No leaks. Very likely the current master cylinder is in original and would need service. But the brakes were never very good and Im looking for to have more especially for emergency situations. 

Do you know if manufacturers like Wilwood or AP-Racing have a master cylinder that would fit ?

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nice_guy
3 hours ago, Jari said:

The pedal goes down to metal when braking hard. It was a bit better earlier. Maybe the cylinder is worn out but I was advised to get a bigger master cylinder to have more fluid to serve all four brakes. Any advices ?

 

Bleed it. And bleed again. With fresh brake fluid, it is very hygroscopic. The fact that it was a bit better earlier may mean there is a bit of gas in the system (likely), that the master cylinder is worn and that you have a bit of fluid escaping on some part of the travel (less likely to me, these things are simple and last), or that you are braking harder (vuuuuurrrry likely)

Then adjust pedal travel (I just went through this to gain a bit of legroom on the very same model and year car that you have) : there is a clevis and a couple of nuts that can give a significant amount of travel. Would work if it's case 3, if MC is worn or your have bubbles in the system, that will help but not cure.

When you write "to the metal", is it back of the pedal on frame square tubing or to the aluminium panel at the end of the footwell ?

 

Drums brakes at the back end ? Any brake fluid under the rubber boot on the MC ?

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TableLeg
7 hours ago, Jari said:

Do you know if manufacturers like Wilwood or AP-Racing have a master cylinder that would fit ?

This is the AP Racing one which is considered the 'upgrade' to the standard Tandem MC.
https://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/137546-ap-racing-master-cylinder/page/6/

 

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nice_guy
39 minutes ago, TableLeg said:

This is the AP Racing one which is considered the 'upgrade' to the standard Tandem MC.
https://forum.wscc.co.uk/forum/topic/137546-ap-racing-master-cylinder/page/6/

 

 

Will it fit ?
Westfield website says it is improper for cars of a certain vintage :

 

Quote

Does not fit ST models, Sport 250, XI or vehicles fitted with early Cortina master cylinders.

 

I failed miserably when looking for, you know, dimensions. 

@Jari, is your master cylinder bolted with a horizontal or vertical flange ?

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TableLeg
6 hours ago, nice_guy said:

@Jari, is your master cylinder bolted with a horizontal or vertical flange

Could you put up a photo of your master cylinder?

 

Does you pedalbox look like this?1766262160_TandemMC.jpg.0a43071cf96cc62ff39082ad7b39c153.jpg

If so, this is the replacement for 'standard' master cylinder from Westfield
https://parts.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=84&search=tandem&description=true

 

And the AP upgraded version
https://parts.westfield-sportscars.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1604&search=ap&description=true

 

Before that I believe was a Cortina Mk3 master cylinder which is not parallel, has a mounting flange horizontally and looks like this....

1761400399_CortinaMc.thumb.jpg.9eb333603eaad045c6f6efd841640e08.jpg

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Thanks for the replies. I need to check issues concerning bleeding etc. But the question where the pedal hits was a good one. I thought by feeling that it is hitting the frame tube but it is hitting to steering column fixing actually. I have changed the steering column as the car is left driven now. So, I need to do something to that fixing and here will be more play for the pedal.

I enclosed photos of the master cylinder.

There is drums in the rear wheels.

The pedal box is as in the drawing.

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

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TableLeg

That is the Westfield standard tandem MC so as above you could replace it with either of the following I highlighted.

 

My pedalbox is the same as yours and I have the Westfield Large bore standard Master cylinder (as linked to above).

 

Hope that helps.

 

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22 minutes ago, TableLeg said:

That is the Westfield standard tandem MC so as above you could replace it with either of the following I highlighted.

 

My pedalbox is the same as yours and I have the Westfield Large bore standard Master cylinder (as linked to above).

 

Hope that helps.

 

It helped a lot thanks !

 

I found out that this MC is also for sale in ebay and seem to be ready for delivery.

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nice_guy

(Very interesting, I have a slightly different pedalbox, an angled reservoir on top of an old cast aluminium MC, exactly like the cortina item above, but a vertical flange, might be a Morgan item, with a brown plastic wrappy thing dangling from it)

 

@Jari : from tour picture it seems like a great length of pedal travel, I probably have circa 70-80 mm at the bottom of the pedal, it might be a 20mm bore MC... Or yours is not sealing properly on a length of the travel !

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7 minutes ago, nice_guy said:

(Very interesting, I have a slightly different pedalbox, an angled reservoir on top of an old cast aluminium MC, exactly like the cortina item above, but a vertical flange, might be a Morgan item, with a brown plastic wrappy thing dangling from it)

 

@Jari : from tour picture it seems like a great length of pedal travel, I probably have circa 70-80 mm at the bottom of the pedal, it might be a 20mm bore MC... Or yours is not sealing properly on a length of the travel !

I must check the cylinder...or buy a new one.

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