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XI with an R1 bike engine


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Ortekk

So as you read in the title, I'm building an XI with a bike engine, I think I'm the first who has done so? Can't find any other owners with such an engine.

 

Regardless, I'm now in the process of mounting the engine in the chassis, and I'm wondering how far the "standard" engine drops below the chassis.

 

I'm planning on dropping the engine by 50mm, as this will match the low points on the chassis, but it would be nice if I could drop it a bit further as I strongly suspect a bulge will have to be added to the hood. And that's with a custom inlet manifold.

 

I know the car will be very low, so I don't want to drop the engine too far and rip off the sump over the first speed bump...

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When I had my XI on a handling circuit it was the best fun I have ever had.  On the hard skinny 155 tyres fitted to wire wheels it was proper fun.   On my car the front end was very pointy,

I'm also a huge fan of 'road' tyres for track use, particularly on light cars.   As MK11 says, they are a lot of fun, with a wide operating range from grip to slip, wear surprisingly slowly,

This is where the engine will sit, the sump is flush with the gearbox hoop, even though it looks a lot lower! The silvery cookiebox thingy is actually the Oil cooler! It's cooled with the coolant, s

Posted Images

jonjh1964

My A Series sump is just below the  gearbox hoop with the sump plug being the lowest point. I’ll try and get out to the garage and measure it.1B05E38C-C68C-4904-B1B0-3ADEDD5D16FA.thumb.jpeg.d7efff034ecefebb5dfbe6dc6a2ce443.jpeg
 

Doesn’t like going anywhere near the middle of the road speed bumps!

 

Good luck with the build.

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Ortekk

Thanks!

It looks like it is mounted on roughly the same level, I used the hump as a reference. I think 50mm is good to stay at.

 

It's a fun build with lots of small issues to be solved. 

The engine brings several due to its height and offset output shaft.

 

 

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Morris
2 hours ago, jonjh1964 said:

My A Series sump is just below the  gearbox hoop with the sump plug being the lowest point. I’ll try and get out to the garage and measure it.1B05E38C-C68C-4904-B1B0-3ADEDD5D16FA.thumb.jpeg.d7efff034ecefebb5dfbe6dc6a2ce443.jpeg
 

Doesn’t like going anywhere near the middle of the road speed bumps!

 

Good luck with the build.

That does look mighty close to the deck...!

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Morris
2 hours ago, Ortekk said:

So as you read in the title, I'm building an XI with a bike engine, I think I'm the first who has done so? Can't find any other owners with such an engine.

 

Regardless, I'm now in the process of mounting the engine in the chassis, and I'm wondering how far the "standard" engine drops below the chassis.

 

I'm planning on dropping the engine by 50mm, as this will match the low points on the chassis, but it would be nice if I could drop it a bit further as I strongly suspect a bulge will have to be added to the hood. And that's with a custom inlet manifold.

 

I know the car will be very low, so I don't want to drop the engine too far and rip off the sump over the first speed bump...

No, I've not seen one with a bike engine so you are trailblazing here!

 

Will your car be for track use only or for the road, and if the latter, will the IVA test cause trouble or will you just be issued with a Q plate?

 

Good luck with the build and keep us posted.

 

Btw, there is an electric powered xi in the latest club magazine though which intrigues me...

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jonjh1964

F71064F6-B9DD-47B3-BD78-398C4B488BFC.thumb.jpeg.c03d5b034b3826c2bbc775336b6d6b33.jpeg

side on view

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stephenh

I would have thought that a bike engine is going to stick very high, out of the bonnet line? The A series engine only just fits, and that hasn't even got overhead camshaft, the camshaft is in the side of the block and actuates the valves via pushrods and rockers. And the underside of the bonnet on my old car touched the oil filler cap when the bonnet flexed.

😒😒

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Ortekk
39 minutes ago, stephenh said:

I would have thought that a bike engine is going to stick very high, out of the bonnet line? The A series engine only just fits, and that hasn't even got overhead camshaft, the camshaft is in the side of the block and actuates the valves via pushrods and rockers. And the underside of the bonnet on my old car touched the oil filler cap when the bonnet flexed.

😒😒

It is a very tall engine, especially with the stock airbox, that thing builds like 10cm! And the intake runners are more or less vertical, but I have a plan on how to fix that. Will hurt engine performance, but it will actually help me to register the car here in Sweden. We have a 20Kw/100kg limit for amateur built cars, Im going to be waaay past that... The R1 engine is only 71kg, with gearbox! Im hoping for a 500kg dry weight.

 

54 minutes ago, jonjh1964 said:

F71064F6-B9DD-47B3-BD78-398C4B488BFC.thumb.jpeg.c03d5b034b3826c2bbc775336b6d6b33.jpeg

side on view


Looks even lower than mine, my sump is pretty much in line with the gearbox hoop.
I think Ill keep it where it is for now :)

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Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO

Hi, Ortekk,

 

My A series Eleven with a heavy Ford Type 9 gearbox and a full tank of fuel weighed 530kg when it was IVA tested.  I am guessing that your  dry weight could end up down around 450kg.  This may leave you with a very stiff car if you use the stock suspension units - it would probably be worth speaking to specialists (like Protech in the South West of England) to get something specially made to suit the finished weight.

 

Maybe filling the side pods with sand might help with the power to weight ratio when you have the car tested 😀

 

Good Luck with the build - I'll be watching with interest.

 

Simon

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jonjh1964
4 minutes ago, Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO said:

My A series Eleven with a heavy Ford Type 9 gearbox and a full tank of fuel weighed 530kg when it was IVA tested.  I am guessing that your  dry weight could end up down around 450kg. 

I agree mine with A Series & Type 9 was 515kg on Slark Engineering's corner weight scalesIMG_0300.thumb.jpg.0e597167f798d7942b695a3f83402835.jpg 

 

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Ortekk
33 minutes ago, Simon Marks - North Oxfordshire AO said:

Hi, Ortekk,

 

My A series Eleven with a heavy Ford Type 9 gearbox and a full tank of fuel weighed 530kg when it was IVA tested.  I am guessing that your  dry weight could end up down around 450kg.  This may leave you with a very stiff car if you use the stock suspension units - it would probably be worth speaking to specialists (like Protech in the South West of England) to get something specially made to suit the finished weight.

 

Maybe filling the side pods with sand might help with the power to weight ratio when you have the car tested 😀

 

Good Luck with the build - I'll be watching with interest.

 

Simon

450kg dry sound nice! I have bunch of lead shot lying around, so might hide some of it around the car 😄
Well, I was planning to contact Protech anyway. I know the stock shocks are a "bit" short, and the local IVA guy is known to have a no-go policy when it comes to insufficent Droop. And getting proper springs is a must, Im expecting the car to be slightly rear heavy.

2 minutes ago, jonjh1964 said:

I agree mine with A Series & Type 9 was 515kg on Slark Engineering's corner weight scalesIMG_0300.thumb.jpg.0e597167f798d7942b695a3f83402835.jpg 

 

Oh... 😄

  • Haha 1
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robhume

Hello Ortekk,

 

I also have an Eleven, originally built with a Zetec engine located so there was no part of the sump 

below the bottom chassis rail. However with that position it was necessary to make a bonnet bulge,

quite a large one. I also changed the spring pounds all round.

I have now changed the engine to a Crossflow, mounted to keep the original bonnet line but the sump,

which is modified, is below the chassis rail by about 25 to 30mm.

What might be of interest to you is the Eleven has a 4.5 ratio lsd diff but I also have a Stuart Taylor Loco

with an R1 engine, standard but with a Power commander5 and a flat shift. The axle ratio is 3.7 with lsd

and coupled with the R1 engine is fairly rapid but what you may want to bear in mind is that it's fairly noisy

with that ratio and also the straight cut gears. For example at 70mph the engine is on about 7500rpm,

fine for a hill climb or a short sprint but for road use, I use either a helmet or hat with ear defenders over.

The engine has an aluminium air box of smallish dimensions compared to the standard airbox but still 

protrudes by about 75mm and the sump is below the bottom chassis rail by about 50mm with clearance

under the sump of about 85mm.

The performance in the Eleven with the Zetec engine which made about 183 bhp was quite quick but

I would think with an R1 engine, lighter, similar hp, would be fairly quick given the all up weight would be

as Simon has said around 450kgs but you will certainly need to look at the springing.

Good luck with the build 

 

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Ortekk
1 hour ago, robhume said:

Hello Ortekk,

 

I also have an Eleven, originally built with a Zetec engine located so there was no part of the sump 

below the bottom chassis rail. However with that position it was necessary to make a bonnet bulge,

quite a large one. I also changed the spring pounds all round.

I have now changed the engine to a Crossflow, mounted to keep the original bonnet line but the sump,

which is modified, is below the chassis rail by about 25 to 30mm.

What might be of interest to you is the Eleven has a 4.5 ratio lsd diff but I also have a Stuart Taylor Loco

with an R1 engine, standard but with a Power commander5 and a flat shift. The axle ratio is 3.7 with lsd

and coupled with the R1 engine is fairly rapid but what you may want to bear in mind is that it's fairly noisy

with that ratio and also the straight cut gears. For example at 70mph the engine is on about 7500rpm,

fine for a hill climb or a short sprint but for road use, I use either a helmet or hat with ear defenders over.

The engine has an aluminium air box of smallish dimensions compared to the standard airbox but still 

protrudes by about 75mm and the sump is below the bottom chassis rail by about 50mm with clearance

under the sump of about 85mm.

The performance in the Eleven with the Zetec engine which made about 183 bhp was quite quick but

I would think with an R1 engine, lighter, similar hp, would be fairly quick given the all up weight would be

as Simon has said around 450kgs but you will certainly need to look at the springing.

Good luck with the build 

 

Thanks for the information Rob!

 

I've thought a lot about the gear ratios and how to get a good allround ratio for both street and track, as I expect to split my driving roughly 50/50 between the two.

 

I went with a 4.22 differential, which gives me ~7000rpm@120kmh. I've also started discussions with a company co-developing a reverse gearbox with Nova, with drop gears, so I can change the gearing between 1.0 and 1.266 in 20min. I expect it to be closer to 60 ;)

 

That gives me ~5500 rpm@120kmh, which is a bit easier to live with.

 

Though I don't know if I'll be able to get one. They only have 1 prototype.

 

And to lower the engine height a bit further, I plan to mount 90° pipes between the head and throttle bodies, this will hopefully make the cam cover the tallest part of the engine.

 

I still expect the engine to hit the hood, but it won't be too bad.

 

But the intake is just an idea at the moment, I'll see if it's actually feasible.

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Man On The Clapham Omnibus

Any chance of emulating the old Vauxhall trick with the Slant Four - tilting the block to one side to reduce the effective height?

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Ortekk
Posted (edited)

No. The chassis is LHD. The closest exhaust is 13cm from my foot.

 

It's rather tight already ^^

 

I would like to show some pictures, but my phone doesn't seem to be capable of making photos small enough to let me post them...

Edited by Ortekk
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