Jump to content

Tory leadership race.


DonPeffers

Recommended Posts

A quick thought on Democracy; many were unhappy in USA 2016 Election where Republican's gained power with more seats BUT less votes than the Democratic Party.

 

The table below shows it happening before elsewhere.

 

Time for a new system?

 

sharing+wrong+winners.png?format=750w

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, DonPeffers said:

A quick thought on Democracy; many were unhappy in USA 2016 Election where Republican's gained power with more seats BUT less votes than the Democratic Party.

 

The table below shows it happening before elsewhere.

 

Time for a new system?

 

sharing+wrong+winners.png?format=750w

Not many examples - does that mean that on all other occasions but 1951 and 1974 in the UK the party with the most votes got in power, if so is it a pretty poor argument for change?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's more to it than that when you bring into the mix Coalition Governments which nobody voted and minority Governments.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/17/coalition-and-minority-governments-are-not-so-unusual-in-uk-elections

 

"Britain had 20 governments in the 20th century, according to Prof Robert Hazell of University College London’s constitution unit. Of these, five were coalitions and five were minority governments. Only 50% of these governments were the “traditional” single-party majority government that Britain’s first-past-the-post electoral system is often deemed to favour."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DonPeffers said:

There's more to it than that when you bring into the mix Coalition Governments which nobody voted and minority Governments.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/17/coalition-and-minority-governments-are-not-so-unusual-in-uk-elections

 

"Britain had 20 governments in the 20th century, according to Prof Robert Hazell of University College London’s constitution unit. Of these, five were coalitions and five were minority governments. Only 50% of these governments were the “traditional” single-party majority government that Britain’s first-past-the-post electoral system is often deemed to favour."

So even with 'first passed the gate post' on 25% of occasions we've ended up with coalitions  'that no one voted for' (journalistic licence as clearly the individual parties that make up the coalition got their votes), however, is what we'd get 100% of the time with Proportional Representation because none of the parties admit to a potential coalition before the vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With more Political Parties appearing, like Brexit and Change UK-The Independent Group (some of whom now stand as Independents--- I see Chuka Umuna has gone to the LibDems) plus bearing in mind the increasing vote for Greens with the climate agenda very much in the spotlight it may well be that no party will get a workable majority if there is an early General Election; look what happened when Mrs May tried in 2017 following predictions of a landslide victory.

 

The first past the post system with the adversarial politics may have had its day. It seems the Opposition MUST oppose even when they agree with a policy.

 

The Scottish Parliament uses a proportional voting system called Additional Member System and while there is of course some adversarial politics it does encourage alliances and compromise rather than a winner takes all approach.

 

With many MPs going against the Manifesto they stood on in 2017 or, worse still, leaping from Party to Party with majorly different Manifestos without having the decency to stand for re-election the current system seems IMO incapable of delivering a recognisable democracy.

 

All suggestions welcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DonPeffers said:

With many MPs going against the Manifesto they stood on in 2017 or, worse still, leaping from Party to Party with majorly different Manifestos without having the decency to stand for re-election the current system seems IMO incapable of delivering a recognisable democracy.

 

I think these are extraordinary times. We shouldn't base anything, and especially not a fundamental change in our democracy, on what is happening at the end of the 10's or the start of the 20's.

 

I like first past the post. It results in "minority" governments but that's not a bad thing. When a policy is good and fair it doesn't matter what colour the banner is, MP's will (or at least should) vote for it, and when something is bad it stops the majority forcing it through. BUT... this requires a degree of maturity in politics which I think we lack right now. Opposition for oppositions sake is stupid. It is not the job of the opposition to simply oppose.

I realise MP's stand on a manifesto and there are loyalties, especially when upper echelon jobs are dangled but there's still right and wrong, good and bad. Simplistic, yes and of course I am ignoring all the shades of grey in politics but often the shades of grey are exactly what is getting in the way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Blatman, look at all the coalitions around the world and you get minority crack pot parties holding immense power. The DUP is calling a lot of shots yet has just 10 MP's.

 

Across the EU sensible policies have been defeated by the Greens, who want us back in the dark ages in many ways.

 

First past the post has it faults but it is the best system, unfortunately we now appear to lack statesmen and women anywhere in the UK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there have been a number of factors. An appalling leader in TM, those in industry know what happens if a factory ends up with a poor factory manager. The best people often leave, the next level stops pushing and almost everyone else becomes disruptive. No discipline in cabinet and everyone doing their own thing with TM promoting based on loyalty irrespective of talent.

 

At the same time we have had a truly dreadful leader of the opposition.

 

The perfect storm. First thing is, swop both leaders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Please review our Terms of Use, Guidelines and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.