S2T Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mark Stanton said: Why have two Anglesey events so close together ? ............... perhaps with the issue that has arisen with a certain scrute from LDMC ..... maybe 2020 will be easier to resolve ? than amending scoring system ............. and that is to attend events where Westfields are welcomed Mark it was easy to investigate pre event that the scrute for the MGCC event was not the same chap as LDMC. As it was the scrutes at MGCC were helpful rather than confrontational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 11 hours ago, stephenh said: Tony, Rule 1.6.(d) makes no reference to the TRACK (my emphasis) just to CONDITIONS. If only 2 competitors chose to turn up to a round of the championship then so be it. If one (or both) happen to be novices, or in uncompetitive cars, that is the conditions under which they run. Fair point Stephen 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onliest Smeg David Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I made a suggestion to SSOT a while ago, along the lines that if an SS round incurred 1.6(d) then any individual competitor should not receive more than xx% of their average scoring or maximum scoring under normal circumstances. So if competitor A (say novice) usually scores 81 SS points, then under 1.6(d) being invoked they would still only receive max of for example 83 even if they were the only competitor there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.anson Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 8 hours ago, Tony Smiley said: So it is everybody else's fault for not turning up to the event - ah, got it now! Tony It is nobody’s “fault” as you put it. The rule has been in regs for years but Its something we will look at as historically we had a lot more people competing in the Speed Series over a calendar of fewer events so this situation rarely occurred, but as with other clubs and motorsport generally there are fewer people competing overall. We are trying to get a set of regs that is fair to all, but every conceivable situation cannot be accounted for. The SSOT can only do so much and we need the competitors to do their bit and support the events and come up with constructive suggestions as to how to improve things. From time to time situations occur where a quirk of the regs mean someone loses out , which is far from satisfactory and on those occasions they rightly come on the boardroom to complain and highlight it to the SSOT. What never happens is for someone to suggest a workable solution to the problem. Rules have been altered in the past to try and solve one issue only to find there are unforeseen consequences when a different scenario occurs. So do you have any suggestions as to how we should re word the regulations to cover “wet” events or “ conditions” and to cover every situation would so we can consider them for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2T Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 38 minutes ago, Dave (OnliestSmeg) - Manchester AO said: I made a suggestion to SSOT a while ago, along the lines that if an SS round incurred 1.6(d) then any individual competitor should not receive more than xx% of their average scoring or maximum scoring under normal circumstances. So if competitor A (say novice) usually scores 81 SS points, then under 1.6(d) being invoked they would still only receive max of for example 83 even if they were the only competitor there. what would happen if it were their first event and had no 'previous' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurici Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 OHHHHH a rules debate that I've missed. I really don't care at all anymore, as I have other worries than the championship score ruling or the points or whatever... But, saying that the system is "not perfect" is a BIG understatement. This is a system that: If you are really slow, and you are alone in the event, you will have bigger points that if you actually try to beat the TT but you can't quite beat it. So, ocasionally, being slower its a premium. We don't value clutch issues or 10 hours journeys to score points (sadly), we score point with SPEED. A system where in 2017 didn't award as winner to the fastest (by far) chap in the field. It does have enough issues to give it a though and maybe consider it not fit for purpose. However, (And before someone jumps over me), I don't have any better Idea. The whole format of a championship where yo are not competing on the day against your competitor, is odd and if we want to maintain it as is, it will never be fair. So... we know what we sign up for, and is what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 It has been unusual that not many experienced / faster guys have entered many events thus far which has somewhat exposed this rule. In seasons gone by, newcomers / slower guys (for whatever reason - no disresepct intended) would be surrounded by more experienced / faster guys and this rule would not have come into play. It is nobody's fault but it has not previously come into play as far as I know and therefore this scenario has not previously been noted. I am sure the SSOT will discuss and remedy this if needed for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Gaskin Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, maurici said: We don't value clutch issues or 10 hours journeys to score points (sadly), What would be the point in that? If you were to gain points by travelling further to events the Calder's and Stewart Robb would find it even easier to score big points in the British Sprint. Wallace Menzies would have won the British Hillclimb multiple times at this point. And rewarding a driver for having a poorly kept car that breaks down all the time? If your car has a fault; that's that, nothing you can do expect try to fix it. That's motorsport, it's a risk everyone takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maurici Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 53 minutes ago, John said: It has been unusual that not many experienced / faster guys have entered many events thus far which has somewhat exposed this rule. In seasons gone by, newcomers / slower guys (for whatever reason - no disresepct intended) would be surrounded by more experienced / faster guys and this rule would not have come into play. It is nobody's fault but it has not previously come into play as far as I know and therefore this scenario has not previously been noted. I am sure the SSOT will discuss and remedy this if needed for the future. Yes it happened before and I already highlited the oddness of it... I scored maximum points in mira once in a bone dry day... 2016 barbon (where i whithdraw my entry last minute) again happened the same... Is not the first time. It may seem, however, that is the first time that someone pays attention to it. 35 minutes ago, Alex Gaskin said: What would be the point in that? None at all Alex. I was just kidding making reference to some of the comments in the earlier posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smiley Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 4 hours ago, mark.anson said: So do you have any suggestions as to how we should re word the regulations to cover “wet” events or “ conditions” and to cover every situation would so we can consider them for the future. Mark, I will give this some thought, but off the top of my head the first thing I would do is remove the ambiguity around the “conditions”. Although Terry states in his post that “The rule was changed from "WET DAY" to the wording above a few years ago as it was hard to determine whether Rain was the same as Damp. Cold tracks/tarmac have always been a problem.” , it seems some still have their own interpretation as to why it is there. Something along the lines of: If the environmental conditions at a round are such that 61% or more of the Westfield car classes’ entry have times......?? The validity of the decision to then invoke the rule on these grounds could also be ratified, should it be considered necessary, by checking the delta of competitors other than WSCC entrants as I did in my previous post. This would of course involve someone's time to arrive at a decision whether to invoke the rule or not, but it could be time well spent. Tony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.anson Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Thanks for that Tony Some good suggestions there. “Environmental conditions” sounds good wording to me. I’ll put it to the rest of the SSOT and it will put forward as a proposal. Any other constructive ideas are welcome too. You can always PM me if you don’t want to post it publicly on the forum. Mark Anson SSOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark.anson Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 6 hours ago, Dave (OnliestSmeg) - Manchester AO said: I made a suggestion to SSOT a while ago, along the lines that if an SS round incurred 1.6(d) then any individual competitor should not receive more than xx% of their average scoring or maximum scoring under normal circumstances. So if competitor A (say novice) usually scores 81 SS points, then under 1.6(d) being invoked they would still only receive max of for example 83 even if they were the only competitor there. Good point Dave and again another good suggestion to evaluate. As S2T says we would have to consider what would happen if there was no previous data for a first time competitor but I’m sure we could come up with something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenh Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I think it is sad that there has been implied criticism of a competitor in the Speed Series for scoring "too many points", particularly a competitor who I suspect is either a novice or is not very experienced, or maybe has an under developed car for his or her class. The Speed Series is such a friendly championship and this thread on a public forum really doesn't help to attract new novice entrants. The solution should be to make an appeal to the championship organizer, not on an open forum, if a competitor feels that the rules have been wrongly interpreted. Or of course, the other solution is to get out on track and score maximum points one'self rather than moaning about what someone else has scored. Just my feelings on this matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Loudon - Sponsorship Liaison Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, stephenh said: I think it is sad that there has been implied criticism of a competitor in the Speed Series for scoring "too many points", particularly a competitor who I suspect is either a novice or is not very experienced, or maybe has an under developed car for his or her class. The Speed Series is such a friendly championship and this thread on a public forum really doesn't help to attract new novice entrants. The solution should be to make an appeal to the championship organizer, not on an open forum, if a competitor feels that the rules have been wrongly interpreted. Or of course, the other solution is to get out on track and score maximum points one'self rather than moaning about what someone else has scored. Just my feelings on this matter. I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Smiley Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 2 hours ago, John said: I agree Be careful here, because the definition of a novice is now coming into play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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