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Should I query this bill


mikef

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I get that Steve and I know they are a small simple car, I'm just trying to say if a decent garage was doing the job properly there's a bit more to it.

Parts guy in advance orders parts, service guy creates paperwork, gives the tech the job, tech then gets parts from parts guy, tech brings car in, goes round it, notes damage, mileage, maybe does a health check/report etc, gets it up in the air, does said service + bits & brakes, disposes of waste bits, road tests car maybe 5 mins, spends 5 mins writing the job up with time taken/stamping service book up etc, car then might get a mini valet maybe 10mins? service guys then create paperwork/invoice for customer.  Surprising how time ticks on, plus sometimes the simplest jobs can have silly little things that can go wrong and add 10mins on.  

So once you add up the in & out, parts getting, waste doing, road test, valet & invoicing/paperwork there's a half hour there alone.

Still seems a bit steep for a small indy though especially considering that using the citroen website that lot would have only been £450 service & brakes + the £75 inc vat for the 2 separate parts & whatever they charge to fit them, maybe another £50 tops?  Total £575.

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7 hours ago, mikef said:

Thank you one and all.  I will query the labour costs and I know I should have asked beforehand.  Hey ho!

Jeff - what is ICME? There was no diagnostic work on the hazard switch, it was a straight replacement as was the rear tailgate brake light.

Icme is a book which has most jobs in them with the manufacturers time to do them. They can be a bit hit and miss on jobs like gearbox removal but a good guide to go by and most reputable garages will know of them.

What people have to remember, is that you are not just paying for a quick job that can be done by yourself. You are paying for the building the staff the insurance to back up if they screw up. We get people all the time saying our parts are expensive quoting what they see in a white box on ebay, a bit like comparing a Yaris with a Rolls, yet that is set in their mind.

Garages are a business, they have to make money but the golden rule is always get a couple of quotes and always make them ask, with a price before agreeing to any extra work. 

I still think the labour is a bit high but if you find out time taken you can see what they are getting hourly rate wise.

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mikef I would ask about the labour on this job, and you could argue the flushes were not required or you see them as an add on that was not discussed.

The oil can be expensive for these, 0W-30 Synthetic , SAE 5W-30 Synthetic OEM PSA B71 2312 5W-30=PSA B71 2290, but it only takes 3.1 litres that's £22.50 plus vat from us.

I think the garage has viewed which service is due and have picked the 80k or 96 month service, which is the big one, as the vehicle is an 11 plate dependant on reg date it may have been ready for a the much lighter 70k or 84 month service. Strangely I didn't spot any mention of brake fluid been changed or test results. 

On a new vehicle/customer to any garage the garage should ask for the service book and ask questions of the customer about service history, if there is no history available and or the customer doesn't know then the norm would be go simple service but carry out a check of items like removing a plug to get a view on its condition etc to form a basis to go forward.

I would have expected the job to take;

Service, the book time is 2.05 mins for the 80 96 month service.

Brake disc and pads 1 hr  plus  fifteen mins post work road test

The light unit is a quick job but the hazard light switch I don't know, sometimes a lot more needs to come undone than you think so I would guess at 50 mins

A pre road test and post road test including bedding in the brakes.

Our rate is £55 per hour plus vat which equates to £225.50 plus vat

I can only think there labour rate is big or it was the time take to add all the stupid stuff like screen wash and sump washer etc....

 

Oh and before someone says you can do the brakes faster, yes you can but the way we do them I don't apologize for the time taken as its quick for what you getting, pick attached is nothing special but what you cant see is properly cleaned disc to hub mating surfaces, fully stripped slider which is bead blasted also, slider pins cleaned and repacked with grease, brake pads fitted with all the correct fitting hardware etc etc. On this photo the carrier has also been painted at the request of the customer. Also how many have you have had aftermarket pads which day one are a very tight fit in the caliper? We ensure the pad fits correctly with the appropriate clearances and lube.. oh and you will notice the caliper hasn't been left swinging around in mid air either..  lol

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I fully get that garages have to make a living and that overhead and decent staff aren't cheap but 325 plus vat is ludicrous for labour.

I'm not saying that things should be done faster to make cheaper but I would fully expect a pro mechanic with all the tools, air/electric gun, 2 post lift out of the weather to be able to naturally complete a relatively simple task quicker than a decent home mechanic on the drive. And I Never rush where brakes or other critical systems are concerned. 

I would say the hourly rate quoted by @Snappy

Would be around the number I would be expecting to pay at a decent indy garage.

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On the plus side they have not charged for disposal of engine oil.   

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I would query the labour. You need to find out what they charge per hour. 

Full service at Peugeot Main dealer vary from 1.7 to 2.2 hours depending on the vehicle.

Front disc and pad replacement 1.0 to 1.2 hours. To carry out the hazard switch replacement and rear brake lamp I would have allocated 0.3 to 0.5 for them together.

Did you authorise the garage to use additional items like the engine flushes and fuel additive?

 

 

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Well, that didn't go well!  I told him I felt the labour charge was on the high side and asked what his hourly rate was and he stated it was £58.90 + VAT = £70.68.  This equated to 5.5 hours work and I asked for a breakdown which he gave as follows: 2 hours for the service, 2 hours for the disc and pad changes and 1.5 hours for the switch changes.  When I queried the switch changes he went off on one about being in business and I don't understand what's involved in these things and that's his price and he's sticking to it.  

I clearly was not going to get anywhere and the trust element had gone so decided to bite the bullet and told him I would not be returning with at least 3 MOT tests and 2 tiptop services per year.  He replied that was fine.  There endeth the tale and I will now start looking for another small independent garage. However, in future I will make sure to ask the right questions beforehand and I admit to being at fault for not doing so on this occasion.  His loss, not mine and he certainly won't be getting any recommendations from me.

Thanks for all your views and comments.  This is such a good club :d

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Glad to hear you are taking a positive from this.

TBH I wouldn't trust anyone near a car who takes 2 hours to change a set of discs and pads anyway!!

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