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Should I query this bill


mikef

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We have recently moved and my better half’s Peugeot 107 (11 plate) needed a service and some work done.  I found a small independent garage that is ideally placed and had the car MOT’d there a few weeks ago and it passed OK with some advisories.   So I booked it back in for a routine service, replacement front discs and pads, rear tailgate stop light and hazard warning switch.  When I went to pick it up, the owner wasn’t there and the fitter would not comment on the bill so I had to pay it to get the car back.

The bill was as follows:

Engine flush              12.00

Engine oil                   35.00

Oil filter                        3.15

Air filter                        6.62

Pollen filter                14.50

Spark plugs                18.00

Screen wash                 1.95

Sump bolt seal              1.95

Sundries                        8.00

Fuel system cleaner    14.00

Set front discs              42.00

Set front pads               19.34

Rear stop light             37.28

Hazard switch              22.93

Total parts                    236.72

Labour                        324.50

VAT                             112.24

Grand total                 673.46

It seems an awful lot more than I would have paid in West Wales since the last routine service I had there cost a total of £183.12.

Should I query the bill or is it about right?  Any comments appreciated.

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I would query the labour costs , seems a bit excessive to me , how much per hour do they charge and how long it took to do the service ???

 

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In fairness there was a fair bit more than just a normal service, but yes query the labour bill. 

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Engine flush and fuel system cleaner? Were these indicated as required and if so how/why? Petrol is a pretty good cleaner itself... Do you know if these things provided a result/resolved an issue and how was the benefit demonstrated? I'd want before and after readings from a gas analyser or something to show that I got value for that money. For what it's worth I've never used any of these things in my life and none of the garages I have used have ever even suggested such things for any of my cars, be they petrol, diesel, old, young, high miler, low miler, kit or whatever...

I agree with the labour costs too. I suspect they are "book prices" for standard tasks like spark plug changes and oil changes etc but I'd ask for a breakdown of how they arrived at the labour costs.

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Looking at the parts they seem okay to me but are at the top end. The labour you should ask for a breakdown of exactly each job done they should be able to quote you ICME times and exactly what their labour rate was.

 It is hard to tell but how much diagnostic work for example did it take for the hazard switch hence the need for clarity and their labour rates. You will pay more here than South Wales for garage work that is for sure.

 

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3 minutes ago, Blatman said:

Engine flush and fuel system cleaner? Were these indicated as required and if so how/why? Petrol is a pretty good cleaner itself... Do you know if these things provided a result/resolved an issue and how was the benefit demonstrated? I'd want before and after readings from a gas analyser or something to show that I got value for that money. For what it's worth I've never used any of these things in my life and none of the garages I have used have ever even suggested such things for any of my cars, be they petrol, diesel, old, young, high miler, low miler, kit or whatever...

I agree with the labour costs too. I suspect they are "book prices" for standard tasks like spark plug changes and oil changes etc but I'd ask for a breakdown of how they arrived at the labour costs.

Engine flush is now recommended as modern oils aren't as good in some areas for cleaning and type of use also important. Fuel injector cleaner is a good idea occasionally especially on low mileage ones. But, they should have explained what they were going to do as all those things are a choice you should be asked to make. garages signed up to the good garage scheme for example will use thes products

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Thank you one and all.  I will query the labour costs and I know I should have asked beforehand.  Hey ho!

Jeff - what is ICME? There was no diagnostic work on the hazard switch, it was a straight replacement as was the rear tailgate brake light.

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2 minutes ago, mikef said:

it was a straight replacement as was the rear tailgate brake light.

But on modern cars don’t you have to plug into the engine diagnostic system to tell it you’ve changed a bulb?

The independent garage will no doubt pay a fair bit for the kit that allows them to do this and it makes business sense to recoup the investment by charging a fee for such things. 

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Years ago I heard of The Good Garage Scheme which then involved the member garage paying a monthly fee to Forte Oils and being expected to use their flushing products on a regular basis---unsure if there were any targets for sales. I wouldn't be surprised if there were.

So £26 + VAT =  £31.20 for flushes you might or might not need.

I've not used any flushing engine oils for over 30 years and rarely use fuel injector cleaner, unless a specific problem exists.

Try Googling reviews of the scheme. Look at independent review sites and NOT the garage or scheme's own site.

Best to get the garage to provide their hourly labour rate inc. VAT, and breakdown labour per job to see if reasonable.

I now use a garage chosen from the Council's Trusted Trader list which comes with reviews.

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Hi Don I have a garage we use the forte flushes, we sell them out when needed at £15. Good product when used for the right needs.

If you take you car to a forte good garage scheme member that's the deal they are going to operate to what they agreed, chuck additives in!!

I had the forte rep in on Friday, stands there in front off a customer spouting how much profit I could make if I just put one on every service, also why I should be a good garage member!!  As I pointed out to him I don't need his advertising as our days are always full of honest work, we don't need to chase work, we also will not just charge people for products there car doesn't need! Why would one of our regular customers, who's car we have looked after with the correct spec oil need a flush?? He seems to think you can just keep adding things on the bill and the customer will be over the moon!!

This is how it should be;

The customer who was there whilst forte man rattled on was new to us and had dropped in on recommendation. He needed a service on his just out of warranty Subaru Forester, so I showed him what Subaru say should be done on that service which was most filters and the transmission and diff oils. Subaru's schedule is on time or mileage which is normal but the customers car had done 17k miles from new in the three years, no heavy use or towing etc, so I suggested to the customer that we did a bespoke service pushing the trans and diff oils until next time, he was happy with that and we will document on the service book and paperwork what has been done with a plan to do that work on the next visit. Some customers would just say no just do the lot, looking after cars is just as much working with each customers needs and differing budgets....

My Westfield get its oil changed too often but that's my choice, one of our mechanics always saves my old oil for his daily driver! Always talk to the garage about what they are actually going to do. I regularly take customers in to the workshop to show and explain what's going on. They go away happy and then have no reason not to tell others to come and visit, hence no advertising needed or gimmicky schemes..

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Chris - point taken but this was the whole high level brake light unit because the seal had gone which is 2 screws and a plug in connector.  Because it did not seem to be sitting properly I have just taken it out and see that they have not even bothered to clear the old crud off before fitting the new one :no: It is a 2011 car so it's hardly new.

Snappy - you are quite right, I should have asked a lot more questions before giving them the car.  This is the trouble with getting used to a cracking one man garage in Wales who charged £38 per hour and always did a really good job.  Live and learn!

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I would always get a quote for any work needed including the service which is usually a fixed price .

having said that I do most service myself , no problem changing oil and filters , wiper blades , fitting bulbs , stuff like that . the other benefit from DIY is we know the job has been done properly and not paid £50 odd + per hour for some spotty jobsworth to do the (work) .

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Seriously 2 hours?

To do a major service including plugs & pollen & change the 2 items specified would be 2 hours.  Plus the discs & pads, plus the tech writing the job up if they did doing a health check etc.

That lot will be 3 hours no problem.

£324 seems a bit steep for an independent.  Main dealer fair enough.

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On a 3 pot 107? I've done a service and pad change on a mates lads c1 (same car) granted without the snake oil flush in just over an hour. And that's with no 2 post and no air gun taking a leisurely pace with a brew. Granted a few mins more to do the discs.

A bulb change and a switch another 30 mins conservatively. 

They are the easiest modern ish cars to work on. 

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