XTR2Turbo Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Blatman thanks for suggestions. Yes if I knew they were going to give me a ticket I would have been more hassle but I was tired and couldn't have been bothered. Also only 5 miles from home. Previously a friend and I wwere flagged down on the M42 by a plain police car and we drove 17 miles at 70 mph until the next service station before stopping just as a matter of principal. I told them that I did not trust a plain car might not be a hoax and wanted to stop in a safe place !! - This is perfectly legit. I have got off alleged speeding offences before by going to court, my brother even got off a laser gun attack, but probably going to let this one pass. Unfortunately Vascar is upheld by courts and even though they need it calibrated every two weeks this will only give you a certain margin of error. I was well outside the APTCO guidelines. Note in the US it is not legal as too easy for Police to be dishonest with the tripping on and off but of course we have no dishonest police here. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Fair enough. You obviously know what's what with regard to your rights. I too never stop for un-marked cars, except in a highly populated area, or at the nick...... However... I was well outside the APTCO guidelines. Sod guidelines, their vehicle was outside RTA law......... Sorry, trying hard not to go off on one about justice/police etc.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Albert Posted January 2, 2004 Share Posted January 2, 2004 Interesting East Anglian road safety statistics for 2003 published this evening on BBC News Of 7 counties who reported, 2 had reduced fatalities, 1 had remained the same and 4 including Essex (deaths up 37%) had had increases. Overall the figures were substantially up on 2002 and slightly higher than 2001. Including the various camera safety (sic) partnerships since 2001 there are FOUR TIMES as many cameras in the region. When will this farce end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I've just had a look at the form I was handed by the Police when stopped before deciding whether to challenge etc. I have noticed that the date is incorrect. Says Jan 03 rather than December 03. Any thoughts appreciated on whether this invalidates? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffythefirst Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 i would have thought that was a perfectly good reason to challenge it. Scruffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windy Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 I had a similar discrepancy on a ticket myself but ended up not being brave enough to challenge it. If things go to court and you lose you will likely end up with more points on your license. I'd have certainly challenged the coppers car with the duff headlight. A guy at work was followed by a car whilst he was driving briskly but took no notice of it after seeing its front fog lights were switched on. When it decided to pull him he politely commented "Yes I wondered why you were following closely but I didn't think you were a police car because you were inappropriately using fog lamps". The copper then got in his car and drove off - he had no choice but to eat his words. You'd have had the same reaction i'd have thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick M Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 Agreed - challenge it and make them look stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Chairman Posted January 5, 2004 Share Posted January 5, 2004 A few years ago, here in Cheshire, the police decided it would be a good idea to fit cameras to an unmarked motorbike. It used to make the local news regularly; everytime the black BMW, complete with black helmeted and leathered rider tailed anyone, they panicked and sped off. If IRC the first couple of motorists pulled were women driving alone. The cases both went to court, and ended up with the police biker being told off for terrifying the poor drivers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I have noticed that the date is incorrect. Says Jan 03 rather than December 03. Any thoughts appreciated on whether this invalidates? Was the copper alone? IE will his buddy testify to a magistrate that it's "only" an "administrative" dangler up? If alone, but the Vascar was working, does the video evidence (which they *MUST* give you, if you ask for it) show the correct time and date? Goes back to him doing proper checks. Maybe he got the date off the Vascar unit, rather than his Casio........ Can you prove where you were on the date of the alleged offence, as noted on the ticket/Vascar? If so, I'd challenge it with the evidence of your not being where they allege you were at the date and time specified....... I'd go see a brief, one who does the "fixed fee" advice thingy that lots of them do, and get some advice.........there certainly does seem to have been two major flaws on their part, so I think I'd challenge them and see what happens. It'd be worth finding out just how late you are allowed to change to a guilty plea, just as a back up, in case they look like having a stronger case than we think. That way, you can still plead guilty by post, if it comes to it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lins Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Looks like even the fixed camera's get it wrong tho ! http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_853280.html?menu= Lins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 So much for the driver making an inspection of the vehicle before it leaves the garage.......... Goes back to him doing proper checks. Maybe he got the date off the Vascar unit, rather than his Casio........ What I'm saying ('cos I've just re-read what I posted.......) is, if he failed to check the car was road legal, maybe he also failed to check that his speedo/Vascar was cailbrated, and showing the right day and time. Either way, the evidence provided by what we must assume is an unchecked peice of kit (IE the speedo AND the Vascar) cannot be admissable as evidence, I would have thought....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTR2Turbo Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Thanks guys I'll make a few checks and keep you posted. Additional point - I was in an old Fiat and the top speed as tested by Autocar and quoted by Fiat is 7mph less that the Vascar speed. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatman Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Include that too........ Good luck, and keep us posted...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverobs Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Here in Anglesey where the North Wales Police are in control you are not allowed to to have a copy of the calibration certificate. To quote the document that came with the Notice of Intended Prosecution :- "Q Can I have a copy of the calibration certificate?" "No - All certification is correct and meets the required standards. All camera equipment is self-calibrating and will not operate unless the self-calibration checks are correct." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Q Can I have a copy of the calibration certificate?" On my N I P from the West Mercia Filth the answer is "You may have a copy of the calibration certificate at court following a not guilty plea". Methinks the North Wales Police a having a laugh at you expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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