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stephenh

Disaster, Maybe.

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Oh dear. Yesterday I went out for a run in my XI to fetch some sacks of bird feed for Mrs H. , and to put some miles on the (running in) clock. Car went fine to my destination, about 16 or 18 miles from home. Parked up and switched off to do the business, and to chat to a couple of people about the car. So about 10 or 15 minutes after parking, I climbed into the car, and it wouldn't start, starter motor wouldn't turn the engine over at all. Tried various things, but eventually got Mrs H. to fetch me home. Later, went over with trailer, and recovered the car. In the meantime, I knew it wouldn't be the battery, it had to be either a seized starter motor or a seized engine, so I took with me a very large ring spanner that I have had for the last 50 odd years, as one end exactly fits the crank pulley bolt. Unfortunately, the engine was solid, wouldn't budge an inch in either direction.

I'm at a loss to know what has happened or why. The engine was running fine up to when I parked. Engine temp was on the low side of normal all the way to destination, which would be correct as the air temp was quite chilly still yesterday morning. I did notice however just before I switched off as I was parking up, that the temp rose quite a bit on the gauge.

So today I'm not feeling so happy, and I'm mulling over where I go from here.:cry:

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Oh no. Fingers crossed for a simple resolution 

is there a chance heaD gasket went and it hydraulic locked itself

have you tried with plugs out? 

David

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That must be worrying, to say the least. I'm short of helpful advice, but can offer a lot of sympathy!

Could it be a gearbox problem? Could try rocking the car in gear, with plugs out, might give some indication, not sure?

Best of luck with your investigation.

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Plugs out, it’s probably full of coolant or fuel. Hopefully nothing to bad and you will be back on the road soon. Good luck!

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Gutted for you Stephen, but as the others have said, simple things first.

It was running until turned off, so hasn’t seized  up and cut out, which is a good thing! 

What ever is currently locking it up shouldn’t have done too much additional damage. Hydro-locking seems most likely, given the temperature blip. Failing that, could something be jamming the ring gear? After that, deeper investigation would be needed. But it’s usualy something simple in these instances.

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It isn't transmission, the car pushes fine out of gear, or in gear with the clutch released.

I haven't removed the plugs, but will do. I fear a seized piston or a spun and seized bearing, but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic. Either way, the car is sat in my drive now, on the trailer, with a waterproof cover over it, and I won't be touching it before tomorrow. It is unfortunate that Peter May has retired, and he built up the engine for me so he isn't available to consult. There are a lot of very expensive parts in this engine as it was built up almost regardless of cost, and its only done 300 miles.:cry:

I suppose I'll have to talk to Swiftune for any parts I may need, now Peter has retired. Shame as they are down in Kent, a long way from me.

Anyone know if I can safely re-use the ARP head studs and nut which Peter fitted in the build, or are they "once only"? Same goes for the bigend bolts, and the flywheel bolts if we have to remove the crank?

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Could the starter have jammed the flywheel on attempted restart?

not uncommon for temp to rise as soon as you slow down to park if it's cool on a run?

hope you get it sorted and it's nothing major mate.

if the engine was put together well as it sounds as though it was, then it shouldn't be anything major....fingers crossed for you.

Mart.

 

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Stephen,

Hopefully it isn't too serious

this is from the ARP website:

Are ARP bolts and studs re-usable?

Yes. As long as the fasteners have been installed and torqued correctly, and show no visible signs of damage, they can be re-used. If they show any signs of thread galling or corrosion, they should be replaced. In the case of rod bolts, if any of them have taken a permanent set and have stretched by .001” or longer, you should replace them immediately. See page 29 in the catalog for more detailed information on this critical measurement.

http://www.arp-bolts.com/p/FAQ.php

As you posted earlier, the ARP studs/bolts are a significant cost as part of the rebuild (about 10% of mine) so good news that at least some of them can be re-used.

Peter May sold the business so you should be able to get support from the new owners.

best wishes,

Jon

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Hi, Stephen,

So sorry to read your posts.  Hopefully, as the others have said, it will be something simple and curable.

My engine generally rises in temperature as I park it or switch off - the capillary gauge picks up on heat soak where an electrical gauge would leave me blissfully in the dark!

Have a look at the starter - back in the dim and distant past, when I ran Hillman Imps, the two bolt starters would often break at the flanges and it could be possible that such a thing has befallen your car and left the starter jamming against the ring gear.

Fingers securely crossed.

Simon

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Hi Stephen

Sorry to hear of the tribulations!

If it is easy to remove I would take the starter motor off next then try your ring spanner test again!

I am afraid it is just a process of elimination until the actual cause is found!

Good luck

Graham

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On ‎15‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 09:27, XTR2Turbo said:

Oh no. Fingers crossed for a simple resolution 

is there a chance heaD gasket went and it hydraulic locked itself

have you tried with plugs out? 

David

This is what I am thinking

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On ‎15‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:17, stephenh said:

It isn't transmission, the car pushes fine out of gear, or in gear with the clutch released.

I haven't removed the plugs, but will do. I fear a seized piston or a spun and seized bearing, but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic. Either way, the car is sat in my drive now, on the trailer, with a waterproof cover over it, and I won't be touching it before tomorrow. It is unfortunate that Peter May has retired, and he built up the engine for me so he isn't available to consult. There are a lot of very expensive parts in this engine as it was built up almost regardless of cost, and its only done 300 miles.:cry:

I suppose I'll have to talk to Swiftune for any parts I may need, now Peter has retired. Shame as they are down in Kent, a long way from me.

Anyone know if I can safely re-use the ARP head studs and nut which Peter fitted in the build, or are they "once only"? Same goes for the bigend bolts, and the flywheel bolts if we have to remove the crank?

Stephen

I'm sorry to read this and I am sure it will not be a s bad as you fear. If it was running fine when you switched it off it will not seize itself by just sitting there for a short time. The first thing to do is take the plugs out and see if you can then turn it with a spanner.

 

John

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Well I've spent part of the morning carrying out preliminary visual checks.

Coolant level normal, and reasonably clean. Oil level mid-way between full and low, and oil is clean.

Plugs out and all normal, identical and no sign of damage. Engine still locked solid with plugs out.

Rocker cover off, and all valve gear looks normal and in place, and covered in a thin layer of clean oil.

Next job must be to look at the starter, but I cannot access the bottom bolt with the car on the trailer, and if I get the car off the trailer, because of the slope of the drive it would be a b***er to get it back on again with a defunct engine. However, the starter looks secure, and the top mounting bolt is secure. I can't feel any movement in the starter. Favourite looks to be a jammed stater pinion, but although there is an inspection hole in the top of the bell housing because the engine and transmission is mounted so far back in the chassis I cannot look down it. So I've spoken to the boss of my local independent garage, who is an ace mechanic himself as well as having two excellent experienced mechanics who work for him, and he will help me take the engine and 'box out if needs be, although he is heavily booked up with work this week, so cannot spare any space in his workshop until next week. So he has lent me his scope, so I'll have a look at the flywheel starter ring and the starter pinion with that, and see what that reveals, and for good measure I'll take the plugs out again and have a look down the bores. If I knew it was just the starter pinion jammed with the starter ring gear, I'd happily run the car off the trailer to jack the car up and take off the starter, but we'll see what the scope reveals first.

Fingers crossed!

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3 hours ago, stephenh said:

Well I've spent part of the morning carrying out preliminary visual checks.

Coolant level normal, and reasonably clean. Oil level mid-way between full and low, and oil is clean.

Plugs out and all normal, identical and no sign of damage. Engine still locked solid with plugs out.

Rocker cover off, and all valve gear looks normal and in place, and covered in a thin layer of clean oil.

Next job must be to look at the starter, but I cannot access the bottom bolt with the car on the trailer, and if I get the car off the trailer, because of the slope of the drive it would be a b***er to get it back on again with a defunct engine. However, the starter looks secure, and the top mounting bolt is secure. I can't feel any movement in the starter. Favourite looks to be a jammed stater pinion, but although there is an inspection hole in the top of the bell housing because the engine and transmission is mounted so far back in the chassis I cannot look down it. So I've spoken to the boss of my local independent garage, who is an ace mechanic himself as well as having two excellent experienced mechanics who work for him, and he will help me take the engine and 'box out if needs be, although he is heavily booked up with work this week, so cannot spare any space in his workshop until next week. So he has lent me his scope, so I'll have a look at the flywheel starter ring and the starter pinion with that, and see what that reveals, and for good measure I'll take the plugs out again and have a look down the bores. If I knew it was just the starter pinion jammed with the starter ring gear, I'd happily run the car off the trailer to jack the car up and take off the starter, but we'll see what the scope reveals first.

Fingers crossed!

I am puzzled as to why the starter ring gear would be jammed with the flywheel. When you last turned off the running engine, they would not have been lleft in this position and yet from what you say they appear to be now locked together without the engine having turned over - or did it initially crank when trying to start it?

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