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Lyonspride

Ford rant......

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DonPeffers

With car manufacturers cutting dealers sales margins and plenty customer concerns on Briskoda site that brand new cars post PDI are delivered with engine oil about halfway up the dipstick it looks like makers are cutting costs in many areas. Dealers will no doubt appreciate any increase in servicing work etc they can get.

Can someone please explain to me the benefit of plastic engine covers?

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Kit Car Electronics
2 minutes ago, DonPeffers said:

Can someone please explain to me the benefit of plastic engine covers?

Do you mean the 'beautification cover'? Apart from looking pretty, they dramatically reduce the radiated noise from the top of the engine from cams/injectors/pump etc. 

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Lyonspride

Franchised dealerships don't really make a lot of money from selling cars, they make their real money from after service, so there's a lot of pressure on manufacturers to produce cars and special tooling for those cars, which then takes a good number of years to filter down to your average garage.

The French (Peugeot/Citroen) are by far the worst on this front, with the use of security Torx throughout their vehicles during the mid to late 90's (not sure about now), back then Torx wasn't readily available. Another one they did was centreless alloy wheels, which during the late 90's and early 2000's meant very few tyre dealers couldn't fit and balance tyres.
Fiat, remember the cinquecento sport? They had unique tyre sizes that you couldn't get anywhere except for Fiat dealers and at huge cost.
You have others like Mercedes and BMW who did their best to remove the ability of the owner to do their own servicing.

In the case of Ford, someone has clearly actively researched what tools people are unlikely to have.

This is no joke, it's leading up to a point where nobody will be able to maintain their own vehicles. I read something recently about the idea of locked or welded shut car bonnets, completely preventing owners from doing anything to their cars. An idea no doubt supported by many who have a problem with people modifying vehicles, and who supported the EU proposals of banning modified vehicles completely.

In fact with the move toward electric vehicles this could very well happen, as they become more and more like appliances.

I've seen some Youtube videos where a guy bought and repaired a Tesla, but the company won't sell him parts or give any information to assist him, effectively meaning those cars are scrap once they have an accident affecting anything beyond the bodywork.

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DonPeffers

I recall a mate in the seventies joking about the non-removable bonnet so when car failed to start you would be advised new car needed.

IIRC Fiat Multipla needed special tyres which were expensive and not available everywhere.

 

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Barry S

Time to break out the tin foil helmets me thinks:d

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pistonbroke

If it cant be fixed with a lump hammer and a shifter it aint worth fixing :rolleyes:

 

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Seven Heaven

I agree that cars are designed to encourage you to take them back to the dealers.  We have a BMW mini and we need to change the battery, however if you do that yourself then you risk all the computers in the car losing their memory and you cant start the car until you take it back to the dealer to plug in their computer....

However I wouldn't say that those socket sizes are particularly unusual, pretty much all socket sets contain every socket from 8-19mm without gaps.  The only socket that is unusual is the T50 which I also had to buy when changing the brakes on the BMW mini.  The torque fitting does fit more securely and take more torque than a standards philips screw head so I can understand why they use it for engineering reasons.  

I would however advise you to double check the torque required on the rear carrier bolts as 120nm sounds like a lot for a 15mm socket.    I changed the brakes on our BMW Mini after watching a Youtube video and the video told me the wrong torque setting.  The bolts used the same size socket on the rear as the front which was about 100nm so I didn't question it but the rears required a lower torque and I sheared them. Meant a trip to the dealer for replacement bolts .  We then bought the Haynes manual which put me straight but it meant we had no car for a day or two.  The moral of the story is don't rely on you tube for torque settings...

 

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Lyonspride
5 hours ago, Seven Heaven said:

I agree that cars are designed to encourage you to take them back to the dealers.  We have a BMW mini and we need to change the battery, however if you do that yourself then you risk all the computers in the car losing their memory and you cant start the car until you take it back to the dealer to plug in their computer....

However I wouldn't say that those socket sizes are particularly unusual, pretty much all socket sets contain every socket from 8-19mm without gaps.  The only socket that is unusual is the T50 which I also had to buy when changing the brakes on the BMW mini.  The torque fitting does fit more securely and take more torque than a standards philips screw head so I can understand why they use it for engineering reasons.  

I would however advise you to double check the torque required on the rear carrier bolts as 120nm sounds like a lot for a 15mm socket.    I changed the brakes on our BMW Mini after watching a Youtube video and the video told me the wrong torque setting.  The bolts used the same size socket on the rear as the front which was about 100nm so I didn't question it but the rears required a lower torque and I sheared them. Meant a trip to the dealer for replacement bolts .  We then bought the Haynes manual which put me straight but it meant we had no car for a day or two.  The moral of the story is don't rely on you tube for torque settings...

 

 

I'm going on the haynes manual cross-referenced with info on the owners site, 200nm on the front and actually 110nm on the rear (I remembered wrong, but 110 is still a fair bit). Both seem quite excessive if i'm honest.

The battery was a bit of a ballache on the Mondeo as well, I also wanted to avoid potential issues of having to reset the alarm, windows, the door locks, the radio, etc, so I connected a 12 1.2ah SLA in parallel with croc clips before I removed the battery and wrapped the + side in an old towel to stop it shorting on anything.

You can see what's involved here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rahugsPQS4k, quite frankly the job is a lot more complicated than it needed to be, the battery box I simply cannot understand the logic behind that design, it doesn't really need an enclosed box at all, I was actually tempted to cut the thing out when I was changing the battery.

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jeff oakley

Cars are designed to be built as quickly as possible for the manufacturer, they do not do things to pee us off as there is a cost to everything they do. And it has always been this way for the last 30 years or so, new fixings types mean new tools. Snap-on would go bust without the tools we now need.

Many things are as a result of safety, so when disc brakes on the rear came out, they were rubbish on handbrakes, so we have self adjusters and a tool to wind calipers back.

Manufacturers are trying to stop us doing things through legislation, it is cheaper and far easier for them than messing about with an odd tool here and there. We still can do a lot here they aren't allowed on the continent and tools have never been so cheap especially if you are just a hobbyist. Silverline do a huge range and EBay has no end of cheap gear.

My first Cylinder leakdown tester (which got nicked) was over £300 some years ago, now £40 for one which will do the job fine. 

Yes it is annoying when you have a need for tools for one job, but hardly worth getting angry over. I lend my tools if needed to others for one off jobs, they fix my stuff I cannot how it should be

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Alan France

But Lexus collect the car, service it, give it a valet and bring it back. They have lots of tools!

 

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frubpato?

I'm constantly amazed by the quality of the engineering on my Merc E class, lots o little things that show it was not just designed for ease of assembly.  Having just done the front discs and pads , it was possibly the easiest car to work on , and the bolts were all nicely machined on their shank and still had "copperslip" evident. 

That said , on the continent , if I had replaced my discs and pads and then had an accident I would be in severe trouble , it cant be long before UK insurers start using this as a get out for paying claims  - prove it was professionally repaired or ............

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pistonbroke
2 hours ago, Route66 said:

But Lexus collect the car, service it, give it a valet and bring it back. They have lots of tools!

 

Skoda do the same,  plus they change the oil and filter and amazingly they only charge £170  :t-up:

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Lyonspride
2 hours ago, frubpato? said:

That said , on the continent , if I had replaced my discs and pads and then had an accident I would be in severe trouble , it cant be long before UK insurers start using this as a get out for paying claims  - prove it was professionally repaired or ............

This would be more to do with having someone to blame. so that they might try to claim back their costs from the mechanic/garage that did the work.

Vehicle manufacturers don't want people messing with their cars for many reasons, they don't give a damn about your safety, they jsu don't want liability for any injury/etc that could potentially be dropped on their doorstep, they also know that if people didn't work on their own cars, then cars would be scrapped sooner, as they'll be more expensive to repair in later life.

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DonPeffers
1 hour ago, pistonbroke said:

Skoda do the same,  plus they change the oil and filter and amazingly they only charge £170  :t-up:

Utter bargain as I was quoted £249 for 2nd year service.

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