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MrMgoo

FW special edition 2017 new build from a new member

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Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary

Why so high with the heater stuff?

I think you're possibly going to run into problems. The water level will settle out to be the same all across the car.

im really hoping the shot above is just a bit of an optical illusion, as with a decent amount of expansion room in the header tank, the coolant isn't even going to fill the lower heater hose, let alone the upper, and if the heater is at a similar level, I'm not sure how you're going to fill it properly.

You might, in theory, just about get there by brimming the header tank, (really bad advice, and I'm not actually suggesting you do it). And adding a bleed point to the upper heater hose. But even then it looks like you'd have problems, not least of which, getting the bonnet on.

The main problems from the look of it are 1. Air bubbles do tend to develop in engines, a good cooling system will allow them to self bleed back to the header tank, where there is no harm done. Yours as it appears at the moment will self bleed back to the heater matrix, where short of a drain and refill with a vacuum fill system, I can't see anyway of eradication air locks.

More critically, 2. You look like you will end up with almost no expansion room in the header tank as it currently sits. In an overheating situation, any air lock that is in the upper heater pipes and indeed, the heater matrix itself, will have no safety valve, like the header tank. So will push coolant out until it does find a weekness. In a worst case situation, this could be a hose connection or even the actual matrix itself, under the dash. (The end tanks are just plastic shells, crimped on by the metal matrix, normally). Or the pressure will push back down the pipes, the best case situation, and open the header tanks pressure cap. However, at this point, it will be scalding hot water forced out, not just steam. That boiling water will be right above your feet, with only a thin, removable inspection cover separating them.

Having seen the damage done to the feet of a club member at a Speed Series event, years ago, when after an overheat it dumped its coolant over them, it's really not something I'd wish on anyone.

I think you may have to be trying several things to fix this; move the header tank up, and try and get the heater further down.

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Steve Smith - AO Hampshire And Isle Of Wight

Have a look at my build diary with regards to a heater bleed valve and how I did my dip stick. Hopefully it might help.

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neptune
On 06/10/2018 at 16:10, Dave Eastwood (Gadgetman) - Club Secretary said:

Why so high with the heater stuff?

I think you're possibly going to run into problems. The water level will settle out to be the same all across the car.

im really hoping the shot above is just a bit of an optical illusion, as with a decent amount of expansion room in the header tank, the coolant isn't even going to fill the lower heater hose, let alone the upper, and if the heater is at a similar level, I'm not sure how you're going to fill it properly.

You might, in theory, just about get there by brimming the header tank, (really bad advice, and I'm not actually suggesting you do it). And adding a bleed point to the upper heater hose. But even then it looks like you'd have problems, not least of which, getting the bonnet on.

The main problems from the look of it are 1. Air bubbles do tend to develop in engines, a good cooling system will allow them to self bleed back to the header tank, where there is no harm done. Yours as it appears at the moment will self bleed back to the heater matrix, where short of a drain and refill with a vacuum fill system, I can't see anyway of eradication air locks.

More critically, 2. You look like you will end up with almost no expansion room in the header tank as it currently sits. In an overheating situation, any air lock that is in the upper heater pipes and indeed, the heater matrix itself, will have no safety valve, like the header tank. So will push coolant out until it does find a weekness. In a worst case situation, this could be a hose connection or even the actual matrix itself, under the dash. (The end tanks are just plastic shells, crimped on by the metal matrix, normally). Or the pressure will push back down the pipes, the best case situation, and open the header tanks pressure cap. However, at this point, it will be scalding hot water forced out, not just steam. That boiling water will be right above your feet, with only a thin, removable inspection cover separating them.

Having seen the damage done to the feet of a club member at a Speed Series event, years ago, when after an overheat it dumped its coolant over them, it's really not something I'd wish on anyone.

I think you may have to be trying several things to fix this; move the header tank up,  and get the heater further down.

Appologies for thread hijacking, please remove or separate if inappropriate

Dave,

Your post made me review my heater install. This position you commented on on @MrMgoo install , it seems has alot to do with the westfield heater.

The tape on the header tank is the max level from my old fiesta header as positioned in the car since it was built circa 20 years.  ( always bled fine )

20181008_163726_001.thumb.jpg.b8c3a3b861dceb59de585acff7776c1a.jpg

20181008_163853_001.thumb.jpg.3599842a9075ddd6888b60ceb2a9cf54.jpg

Above you can see the top pipe tail is inline with the top hole on the bulkhead ( the heater is reversed to help show pipe positions) .

The dilema is that the heater cannot be installed much lower on the bulkhead (only about 10mm) 

So my question is what would you do ? 

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MrMgoo

Spoke to Ian at Westfield who has sent me an image of their installs for the heater. Basically the heater stays in position but we angle the pipes lower so that they go through the skuttle below the top of the top of the water tank. He assures me the water will go through into the heater fine with this setup.

DSCN3177.JPG.9df325d8166fd9045b144659f525af28.JPG

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Rich201060

Hi,

I agree with Dave having got my heater working at the weekend it was difficult with the height difference. I bought a bleed valve but don't really want no fit it (no room) . In the image I've tried to get level to show the height difference, I basically got the tank as heigh as possible without hitting the bonnet. Anyway mine suddenly started working luckily after much squeezing.

Rich

P1020778.thumb.JPG.2071775dfb5df7d66100742f386dbcc4.JPG

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MrMgoo

What part of the build manual shows the positioning for the exhaust mounts!? looked through it loads of times ... searched for exhaust 

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Insuranceman
51 minutes ago, MrMgoo said:

What part of the build manual shows the positioning for the exhaust mounts!? looked through it loads of times ... searched for exhaust 

 

51 minutes ago, MrMgoo said:

What part of the build manual shows the positioning for the exhaust mounts!? looked through it loads of times ... searched for exhaust 

If you mean the position to bolt the exhaust mount to the chassis, it doesn't. If you look at the lower outer seat belt anchorages in the passenger side, just forward of that is a similar threaded mounting point, I was given a drill guide which allowed me to drill a pilot hole throught thd ali panel and outer panel. If you pm me with your address I'll willing forward it to you.

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MrMgoo

Preparing the carpets and four point harness. I know the covers go over the harness eyes.

Do I presume correct the spacers go onto the frame at the bottom where the harness bolts on?

and as usual ... no bolts either the harness, the covers or the spacers ... Manual a great help.

 

any recommendation on which bolts to use? image.thumb.jpg.6ba66636e1a4d78df97c9c345a90de1a.jpg

 

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MrMgoo

Onto other news. Heater repositioned

image.thumb.jpg.44940ce4dd4066a801f10ee0bb7e2d86.jpg

when I eventually get the scuttle fitted i will connect up.

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MrMgoo

Using rivet nuts to secure the skuttle ... just wish I had put them in before securing the side panels.

image.thumb.jpg.ee82d984e172e7f0edda669e03f67c45.jpg

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Thrustyjust

Looking at the heater.................. dare I say, it should work fine with the old position. This is mine in build and works fine

1803837939_195Expansionbottle.thumb.jpg.c4bc73412bada04503cfe4d70e496308.jpg

It was kept high due to location of heater and pipework. As long as you have flow going into the lower hose and return to the engine out the top it should clear the air out. I fiddled with issues of no flow and put bleeders in ( horrible thing) and found the small alloy pipe wasnt drilled by the factory in the end :rolleyes:. Fitted their replacement and bingo, havent had an issue since.

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Adge Cutler- Dorset AO

Lower mounts for the harness utilise stepped spacers (smaller dia. is loose fit in harness fitting) and a washer, so that when the bolt is fully tightened, the harness fitting can still rotate in theory. In practice think you'll find it's pretty snug to the seat and can't really/doesn't need to move much at all. Hope that makes sense.

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MrMgoo
14 hours ago, AdgeC said:

Lower mounts for the harness utilise stepped spacers (smaller dia. is loose fit in harness fitting) and a washer, so that when the bolt is fully tightened, the harness fitting can still rotate in theory. In practice think you'll find it's pretty snug to the seat and can't really/doesn't need to move much at all. Hope that makes sense.

OK. Thanks ... I know my mistake. I've used the stepped spacers for the eye bolts at the top of the rear tub ... all change over the weekend

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BugMan

Just on the lower mounting bolt for the harnesses I would suggest taking some photo's of these so you can show the IVA examiner, took mine along at IVA, and while it was not questioned showed i was prepared.

Ideally you want pictures of where the boss is located if you can still get at them :westy:

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MrMgoo

image.thumb.jpg.bfb65c883585d9ea363ad2b2600282ce.jpgimage.thumb.jpg.cbea1b0fd5972298c7bd25565ef35f6d.jpgAnyone know the size of the lower mounting bolt. I've got one left to fit and it is just toooo short! :bangshead:

 

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